[tomder55]

suppress the vote? for a moment I thought I was back on the IRS scandal op. Now that was wholesale vote suppression !

[paraclete]

Don't know how it works where you are but we have an electoral role and you have to identify yourself against that, these roles are automatically maintained by the electoral office so registered deaths are automatically struck off, the parties are very active scouring the nursing homes to gain postal votes and actively promote postal voting, but then this is what is possible in a centralised system where there is no local interferrence. If you are to vote multiple times you are just being an idiot because you will be fined for electoral fraud and if you fail to vote you will also be fined so no incentive for someone to steal your vote.

[smoothy]

Don't know how it works where you are but we have an electoral role and you have to identify yourself against that, these roles are automatically maintained by the electoral office so registered deaths are automatically struck off, the parties are very active scouring the nursing homes to gain postal votes and actively promote postal voting, but then this is what is possible in a centralised system where there is no local interferrence. If you are to vote multiple times you are just being an idiot because you will be fined for electoral fraud and if you fail to vote you will also be fined so no incentive for someone to steal your vote.

And I think that is a GREAT idea... and would support it, as would most conservatives. The Liberals here however want nothing to do with anything like that... they don't even want people to be required to show a legal ID. The only excuse to do such.. is the desire to continue allowing wholesale voting fraud. Committed by their side. Thats how Al Frankin stole an election...and how Obama got voted in twice just to name two.

[talaniman]

That's not entirely true smoothy since many forms of ID have been used for goods and service, but when you specify a different criteria for ID and what it takes to obtain them you put many into a trick bag to comply. I mean its kind of obvious when you allow a hunters license to suffice but not a state college ID, and cut early voting to create longer lines in some communities, and also close some DMV's in more populated areas, and move them to more rural ones, are just examples of targeting voter suppression by the republicans who make these laws.

I am for a national ID but not with the shenanigans, and agenda that goes with them. Especially when republican party leaders have stated the goal was to help republicans win elections. Now you can ignore all of that, but you cannot ignore the ruling of many court across the nation that have already struck down these laws as being prejudicial, and unconstitutional.

Not that you guys won't stop trying.

[paraclete]

And I think that is a GREAT idea... and would support it, as would most conservatives. The Liberals here however want nothing to do with anything like that... they don't even want people to be required to show a legal ID. The only excuse to do such.. is the desire to continue allowing wholesale voting fraud. Committed by their side. Thats how Al Frankin stole an election...and how Obama got voted in twice just to name two.

the liberals here are fine with it, they don't have to pressure voters to turnout and can focus on the issues

[talaniman]

I actually like the concept of everyone voting Clete, but I have always pointed out that the size of your population as compared to ours means you have less logistical nightmares than we do. We also have 50 independent jurisdictions to contend with and some are more proficient than others in the fair department.

But we have had voting rights issues since the founding, and still haven't gotten it right.

[smoothy]

the liberals here are fine with it, they don't have to pressure voters to turnout and can focus on the issues

THey might forcus on the issues In Australia... out our way they follow the school of "if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, then baffle them with BS". The democrats stopped trying to dazzle people a long time ago... they go straight to the baffle them with BS part these days.

[talaniman]

That was a kind of partisan assessment smoothy, seeing as how no new ideas come from your side, but plenty of BS has been produced. In truth neither side has addressed the real issues as elections are always looming on the horizon, so more BS is expected from all the ruling class elites.

[smoothy]

We have lots of new ideas... the partisan hacks that jokingly call themselves journalists refuse to bring them to common public knowledge.

And proof what I said is not partisan... just look at EVERYTHING that has come out of the Obama administration... there has not been a more partisan administration in the history of this country.

[talaniman]

Its foolish to expect a liberal to act in the way a conservative, and equally foolish to think conservatives will act in a liberal way, but the real issue is no compromise position can be attained and that's the way its supposed to work.

Even the Voter ID laws can be reconciled if you would recognize the suppression of particular targeted groups. One of the reasons you get sued is the narrow minded focus of winning an election and justifying it with integrity of the vote. The rhetoric doesn't match the facts, and the courts rule against your version of cause and effects and the outcomes you want being DEVIOUS, and prejudicial.

You have never answered the effects of moving DMV's from heavier mostly minority enclaves to rural setting. Nor have you disclosed that all those free ID's require money and the ability to travel outside the dwellings of most city bound public transportation centers to buy those documents to get a free ID. The most egregious, and most devious tactic is the time table is always just before the next election.

Expect more lawsuits.

[smoothy]

THis fictitious suppressed group?

THe Illegals? THe Dead people? Or the group that feels they are entitled to more than one vote per person? Other than those there is no group anyone is trying to suppress. And none of those three groups are entitled to do what they want anyway.

[talaniman]

What about non driving poor working people. Of course you ignore those groups which are predominately minorities and democratic voters.

[smoothy]

Really... exactly how do poor people apply for or collect benefits of any type.. without an ID? Oh... thats why.. we are talking the illegals... and those poor working dead folk... who are upset they won't be allowed to vote as often as they want. Not US citizens. Who actually have a heartbeat.

You don't get food stamps, welfare, subsidized housing or any other handout without having an ID when you apply for them. You have to have one when you apply for a job because the employer is legally required to verify a lot of things. THe poor working folk you talk of all have ID's.

It's the dead people that can't get their renewed... and the Illegals that aren't entitled to one... and local jurisdictions frown upon people having more than one.

Just admit it... opposing votor ID is all about supporting voter fraud.

[excon]

Hello again,

Allegations of widespread voter fraud often prove greatly exaggerated. It is easy to grab headlines with a lurid claim (That's how Franken and Obama WON!). Yet on closer examination, many of the claims of voter fraud amount to a great deal of smoke without much fire. They simply do not pan out.

The link is to a REPORT by the Brennan Center for Justice at the New York University School of Law.

Here's a portion:

Allegations of election-related fraud make for enticing press. Many Americans remember vivid stories of
voting improprieties in Chicagoland, or the suspiciously sudden appearance of LBJ's alphabetized ballot box
in Texas, or Governor Earl Long's quip: “When I die, I want to be buried in Louisiana, so I can stay active
in politics.” Voter fraud, in particular, has the feel of a bank heist caper: roundly condemned but technically
fascinating, and sufficiently lurid to grab and hold headlines.

Perhaps because these stories are dramatic, voter fraud makes a popular scapegoat. In the aftermath of a close
election, losing candidates are often quick to blame voter fraud for the results. Legislators cite voter fraud as
justification for various new restrictions on the exercise of the franchise. And pundits trot out the same few
anecdotes time and again as proof that a wave of fraud is imminent.

It may be a little much for our non reality based community.. You know, a study from an actual university, and all.

excon

[tomder55]

yeah no reason to be suspicious when absentee ballots mysteriously appear in trunks of cars during recounts.

[smoothy]

Typical Democrat stratagy... misdirect or try to change the subject.

#1. Dead people aren't allowed to vote.
#2. Illegals aren't allowed to vote.
#3 The remaining people who actually do have the right to vote... are only allowed to vote once... not as many times as they can each election.

Nobody is trying to deny THEM the right to vote... Showing proof of who you are only ensures they have the right to vote.

The so-called poor manage to find ID's when it comes time to get free stuff or apply for free stuff. They can break out that same ID when its time to vote.

[excon]

Hello again,

It is more likely that a person will get struck by lightning, than it is for him to impersonate another voter

The above from a study by the Brennan Center For Justice at New York University School of Law.

It's, you know, a REAL STUDY. I thought I'd mention it again lest it be ignored.

excon

[tomder55]

votes cast exceed the number of registered voters in some precincts in Philly ... nothing there ...move on.

The Dems even steal elections from each other .
Troubling actions by Board of Elex members  - NY Daily News

[excon]

Hello again,

I can HEAR you. You KNOW I'm in the room, don't you? I guess I have to post MORE of the, uhhh STUDY, from a REAL University. You seem to be IGNORING it. Guess what? I ain't gonna let ya.

These inflated claims are not harmless. Crying “wolf ” when the allegations are unsubstantiated distracts attention from real problems that need real solutions. If we can move beyond the fixation on voter fraud, we will be able to focus on the real changes our elections need, from universal registration all the way down to sufficient parking at the poll site.

Moreover, these claims of voter fraud are frequently used to justify policies that do not solve the alleged
wrongs, but that could well disenfranchise legitimate voters. Overly restrictive identification requirements for voters at the polls — which address a sort of voter fraud more rare than death by lightning — is only the
most prominent example.

Over to you, wingers..

excon

[talaniman]

Okay keep ignoring what the judges have said case, after case, where your headlines and hollering have LOST as legal arguments over, and over, and over again.

NOW explain THAT!