[talaniman]

I think Tom we have long advanced to making better progress with process and procedures that depend on earlier detection and actions to eliminate completely the need for such late term abortions. Most abortions take place at 12 weeks, so why not cut that to 6,or 7? We already have the medical technology to achieve those ends and prevent most abortions already without demonizing or criticizing females about their own health choices and options.

Naw I don't think guys have a say in those choices, unless given a say by the female.

[tomder55]

But if the mother chooses to bring the pregnancy to term then it is still the man's responsibility to provide for the child. I think in a case where the father wants the child and an abortion is done without consent ,then the father is a victim of the law.

Admit it ;what you are really telling me is that the child has no rights ,the father has no rights and that the woman ,due to their distinct biology ,has special and unequal rights . You consign men and children to 2nd class status.

[Catsmine]

the woman ,due to their distinct biology ,has special and unequal rights

Currently, you are correct. But you have to admit it's less messy than telling her kid to go to sleep in the back seat while she takes her SUV for a swim in the ocean.

[talaniman]

But if the mother chooses to bring the pregnancy to term then it is still the man's responsibility to provide for the child. I think in a case where the father wants the child and an abortion is done without consent ,then the father is a victim of the law.

Admit it ;what you are really telling me is that the child has no rights ,the father has no rights and that the woman ,due to their distinct biology ,has special and unequal rights . You consign men and children to 2nd class status.

Men telling women what to do consigns woman to a second class status too. "Keep them bare foot and pregnant"? And poor kids and woman are already given second class citizen status by some MEN that are unwilling to support, and nurture them.

[Tuttyd]

I dont think it is such a long bow at all when you examine the history and connections from past to present. The words may have changed and been upgraded to fit a point of veiw but it doesnt mean they have disappeared into history. Planned parenthood was started with blacks and hispanics in mind.

The organization promoted the founding of birth control clinics, primarily for the Black and Latino population, and encouraged women to control their own fertility.

Yes, fitting things to represent a point of view is the problem.

[speechlesstx]

Men telling women what to do consigns woman to a second class status too. "Keep them bare foot and pregnant"? And poor kids and woman are already given second class citizen status by some MEN that are unwilling to support, and nurture them.

I'm with you on men unwilling to support their kids but that is not something we created. We aren't the ones encouraging moms to be independent and have a career (though now you say obamacare frees them from that, or that we discourage such), marriages that have nothing to do with a mom and a dad, that women don't need men, that women are helpless without government, or that children are disposable. or, not caring that abortion disproportionately affects minorities.

NYC: 80% of Abortions Were Minority Babies | CNS News

But barefoot and pregnant, second class? That's so Fifties. If you respected women you wouldn't make them dependent on government or blow off predators that prey on them a la Bob Filner and Gosnell.

[paraclete]

not caring that abortion disproportionately affects minorities.

everything disproportionately affect minorities, it wasn't long ago we were debating whether the war on drugs disproportionately targeted minorities. The fact is too much attention is given to minorities and this is because they are very vocal about disadvantage, but disadvantage is the result of a society which doesn't think everyone should be equal in all respects, they mouth the platitudes but are happy to keep there focus away from such issues. Ask Tom whether he thinks there should be handouts to minorities or that they should get a higher minimum wage. Fact is many of us think they shouldn't get the handouts they do, that they should work harder at helping themselves.

[talaniman]

Harshness Warning

Just for the fact that men DON'T support them or their kids is a case for independence and careers rather than be poor and demonized. Then they can make informed decisions in their own best interest, and not be put in desperate situations by predators or those that claim to they know what's best for them.

If a female already has one or two children, you have a problem when she decides a 3rd, or 4th is not in her best interest? I guess that link you provided doesn't account for circumstances that lead to decisions, and the choices minority females make in their own interest. You must think also that no one has rights unless its bestowed on them by some self righteous moral majority religion. That's not the case and neither is what black females do with their life choices either.

If you can't help, take your beliefs and stay out of the lives of others.

[Catsmine]

The problem with their choices about third, fourth, or fifth kids is that the Welfare Plantation pays them to have the kids, providing there isn't a father figure in the house. It was designed that way by LBJ to "keep them ... voting Democrat for two hundred years." (expletive deleted). It's been working great for fifty already.

[paraclete]

you guys really are that cynical, no wonder you have problems

[talaniman]

The problem with their choices about third, fourth, or fifth kids is that the Welfare Plantation pays them to have the kids, providing there isn't a father figure in the house. It was designed that way by LBJ to "keep them ... voting Democrat for two hundred years." (expletive deleted). It's been working great for fifty already.

Yeah the civil rights bill was just a cover up.

[paraclete]

this is what you get for engeneering society

[talaniman]

Isn't every nation young, or old, big or small, to some extent engineering their societies? Isn't that what fiscal policy is all about? I don't think you can just single out the US, and constantly focus on our challenges and forget your own like they don't exist. All of our fortunes are tied to each other to some extent or another.

[paraclete]

Yes our fortunes are tied together and it seems we are destined to introduce the worst of your ideas. You think I focus just on you but in this forum you are so self obscessed you discuss nothing but yourselves as if nothing else exists. What we have managed to do is refine some of your ideas to take out the excesses forged by your political system and wedded these to our own ideas, so when we engineer society it is with a vastly different result. We had the foolishness of giving incentive for children to be born but the ones who took it away wern't the conservatives but those you would consider liberal. we saw a socialist government tie school attendence to welfare payments, I wonder how well that would go down with your politicians and we put our illegal immigrants in gulags, you should try it some time instead of reserving them for drug offenders

[talaniman]

Its an ongoing process in both counties Clete as well as across the globe, and as history has shown us the weak rise and the mighty fall because nothing stays the same. Its all good when times are great but takes very little to change that economic dynamic.

I'm sure you are proud of your gulags to solve your immigration issues, but as they grow, the will suck your economy dry and create years of financial problems supporting those that not only cannot produce for you but simply have to be accommodated one way, or another.

That's okay, you will figure it out. As we figure out solutions for long term consistent positive growth.

[speechlesstx]

You must think also that no one has rights unless its bestowed on them by some self righteous moral majority religion.

I believe the phrase is "endowed by our creator," and those would be life, liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. Your side isn't too keen on honoring the right to life for the pre-born.

That's not the case and neither is what black females do with their life choices either.

Margaret Sanger nods in approval.

If you can't help, take your beliefs and stay out of the lives of others.

Says the side that wants to be in every aspect of our lives EXCEPT abortion.

P.S. What happened to the "preview" feature?

[talaniman]

Equal protection under the law has been redefined as more people pursue THEIR happiness. The reasons for DENYING what the creator ENDOWS us falls group by group from what the founders originally outlawed. You ignore we started with just white guys with land, and now gay people are fighting to be married. It's far from over as more exercise their rights, and choices. Including how to manage their own lives without church intervention. So be it Washington, or Sanger, the process of changing the definitions to fit reality moves on.

While input from the right, and even far right is important it's not the goal, or the destination many want. I have always been against abortion, but that's my choice and as its legal, others have a right to their own choices, that the Creator endows upon us. Not just YOU!

PS, Preview is at the bottom of the GO ADVANCE page next to Submit Answer button. Maybe different in the VGO skin mode.

[speechlesstx]

Equal protection under the law has been redefined as more people pursue THEIR happiness. The reasons for DENYING what the creator ENDOWS us falls group by group from what the founders originally outlawed. You ignore we started with just white guys with land, and now gay people are fighting to be married. It's far from over as more exercise their rights, and choices. Including how to manage their own lives without church intervention. So be it Washington, or Sanger, the process of changing the definitions to fit reality moves on.

While input from the right, and even far right is important it's not the goal, or the destination many want. I have always been against abortion, but that's my choice and as its legal, others have a right to their own choices, that the Creator endows upon us. Not just YOU!

And like Sanger you apprently nod in approval at the abortion holocaust among minorities.

PS, Preview is at the bottom of the GO ADVANCE page next to Submit Answer button. Maybe different in the VGO skin mode.

The button is there, it just stopped actually showing the preview on my tablet and PC a few days ago.

[paraclete]

Its an ongoing process in both counties Clete as well as across the globe, and as history has shown us the weak rise and the mighty fall because nothing stays the same. Its all good when times are great but takes very little to change that economic dynamic.

I'm sure you are proud of your gulags to solve your immigration issues, but as they grow, the will suck your economy dry and create years of financial problems supporting those that not only cannot produce for you but simply have to be accommodated one way, or another.

That's okay, you will figure it out. As we figure out solutions for long term consistent positive growth.

No Tal we are not proud of our gulags, at least our non politicians are not proud of this solution and its outcomes, yes it is a financial burden which sucks funding from more worthwhile projects.

Good luck with your positive growth, might I suggest you arrest the positive growth in your prison industry as a place to start

[talaniman]

We have been rearranging our priorities as of late as to who really should be sent to jail, and who shouldn't be. But the hardliners are slow to budge.