[speechlesstx]

Hello again, Steve:
If they run a company with 50 or more employees, then the law says they DO have to cover their employees. So, YEAH, Christian Science and Jehovah lead companies DO have to obey the law.

Nobody wants to force their employees to be circumcised, because Jews like me who run companies NEVER, in a million jillion years, thought that OUR religious beliefs could be FORCED on our employees... But, if the Supreme Court tells me I have that right, I'm SURE I will. More than that, I certainly wouldn't hire gentiles. We don't believe in mixing the races. At least MY sect of Judaism believes that.

excon

That's as much a false premise today as it was the first time you tried. No one is forcing their religious beliefs on others by not buying them contraceptives. Those employees can have all the contraceptives they want, no one is telling them they can't.

[talaniman]

You aren't buying them contraceptives, the insurance carrier does. The law says he must provide every consumer with a minimum insurance package that included what females need too.

I can respect you conducting yourself according to what you believe, but why should women and companies suffer for your beliefs? If we have to buy extra stuff because you don't believe in it then that's a burden. What about blood tranfusions being eliminated by JW's? What about the boss being a scientologist, and he doesn't believe in doctors?

Where do your rights stop, and everybody else's starts? If you are saying the boss can tell me what rights I have you are surely LOONY.

You might think discriminating against the rights of women using religion as an excuse, but I do NOT!

[tomder55]

I of course would take the arguement further and ask why a person should be forced to buy coverage they don't want and need ? I think all our rights are violated in this law ,and the idiot Chief Justice's twisting of the wording of the law doesn't change that .

[speechlesstx]

You aren't buying them contraceptives, the insurance carrier does. The law says he must provide every consumer with a minimum insurance package that included what females need too.

You keep believing those greedy insurance companies are paying for them and we'll see. Thus far the courts have come decidedly in favor of religious freedom.

[talaniman]

I of course would take the arguement further and ask why a person should be forced to buy coverage they don't want and need ? I think all our rights are violated in this law ,and the idiot Chief Justice's twisting of the wording of the law doesn't change that .

If you don't need it, you won't use it, and won't pay for it. And hospitals won't pass the cost of treating the uninsured onto its other clients, though I imagine they will jack up the costs of surgical gowns, or aspirin any way. Wonder how many of your private market insurance companies would flat out go out of business if you could buy across state lines?

You keep believing those greedy insurance companies are paying for them and we'll see. Thus far the courts have come decidedly in favor of religious freedom.

So you think workers have NO rights, huh? Or not as much as YOUR church?

[speechlesstx]

What is it with you libs thinking it's all or nothing? Is there no such thing as balance? Yes workers have rights and yes the church has rights, but there is no right to free contraceptives especially at the expense of specifically enumerated constitutional rights. You can't and won't force me to violate my religious freedom to provide an imagined right to free contraceptives any more than I can or would force my employees to be circumcised.

[talaniman]

FREE contraceptives don't exist. You have to pay a premium for insurance to get them since its prescriptions only. That means a licensed doctor, and you have to actually visit them. Even with a script without insurance you pay the full amount. Ask your pharmacist how that works.

You have been severely misinformed.

[paraclete]

You have been severely misinformed.

Yes they think that everything is free, the universal provider syndrome otherwise known as the ACA. Has anyone told them there is a cost to participate which must be borne by someone; individual, employer or government

[talaniman]

Clete I wish there was an easier way to get everybody on the same page, but we haven't found it. None of us have. Damn!! Just have to keep working at it.

[paraclete]

Tal it all has to do with how reasonable you are and how much you are beholden to lobbists, and vested interests, and, of course, those inevitable eighteenth century ideas.

Change is important as we wrestle with changed circumstance and holding the status quo does allow us to deal effectively with change. What you have is people who don't want change, either because they are stuck in a time warp, or because it might mean they actually have to admit the system isn't perfect

[cdad]

FREE contraceptives don't exist. You have to pay a premium for insurance to get them since its prescriptions only. That means a licensed doctor, and you have to actually visit them. Even with a script without insurance you pay the full amount. Ask your pharmacist how that works.

You have been severely misinformed.

Nah, I dont think so. Maybe your the one that is misinformed. Check this out.

And while lack of awareness about the so-called "contraception mandate" might reflect overall, widespread confusion about Obamacare's details, an expert who has been following the issue said it also reflects the fact that pharmaceutical companies aren't advertising the fact that their contraceptives could be effectively obtained free by many women.


Three separate surveys by Phoenix earlier this year found that less than 50 percent of women ages 18 to 45 knew that the Affordable Care Act requires health insurance plans to provide contraceptives without out-of-pocket payments to women for birth control methods approved by the Food and Drug Administration.


Maybe Im misinformed but to me no out of pocket expenses means it is free.

Low awareness of Obamacare birth control mandate

[tomder55]

your serfdom predates my 18th century ideas .

[cdad]

para- what is missing from this debate most of the time is one side refuses to open thier eyes and see the truth and when they do come accross it they would rather "pretend" it doesnt exist and just spout the party lines they have been given. Change can only take place when you have transparency. So far there is no transparancy from the Obamacare plan. There is only emperor granted loopholes and lies being pushed as truths to fool the sheeple into believing.

[talaniman]

When you say free, cdad, you meant without a co pay, so the amount is paid for by your insurance carrier through your premiums as your article points out repeatedly you only get benefits if you have insurance. No copay for certain things is a part of your benefits when you purchase your plan, much like my free high speed internet service, or free HD cable. Without a subscription I would get neither... for free.

If indeed it was free why are church corporations so adamant about NOT paying for it?

My mind would be more open if you quit denying facts from your own links. Okay many don't know the benefits yet, but transparency isn't the problem.

Change can only take place when you have transparency. So far there is no transparancy from the Obamacare plan. There is only emporor granted loopholes and lies being pushed as truths to fool the sheeple into believing.

Talk about the party line!! Word for word.

[paraclete]

whose serfdom Tom? I don't live in a place where I have to buy health insurance.

[cdad]

Tal, it should be obvious. They (the church coporations) are either A) Paying for that premium or B) They are self insured and the money for it comes directly out of thier own pocket.

So yes they are paying for something that is against thier beliefs.

If Obamacare is so transparent then why use words like "pretend" to defend it? It all started with the perfectly transparent passage of the bill. You have to pass it to find out whats in it. So lets pretend from the start they actually read it somewhere along the line before voting on it. Yeah right !!!! lol

[talaniman]

You mean there is no employee contribution for church workers for health insurance? Interesting.

[Wondergirl]

My dad was a Lutheran pastor for over 30 years and paid into a Lutheran health insurance plan. When I taught Lutheran school, I paid into the same plan.

[speechlesstx]

FREE contraceptives don't exist. You have to pay a premium for insurance to get them since its prescriptions only.

Thank you for finally coming around to my side. So the insurance company doesn't pay for them after all, the policyholder does.

[paraclete]

So the insurance company doesn't pay for them after all, the policyholder does.

thus the church objection