[tomder55]

Yes, I gathered that aspect of the discussion. Not believing that seems like a pretty good inference to me. I think that goes without saying.

However, I was also interested in the claim that people who buy a certain types of policies are not idiots. They know what they want and they did it out of choice.

This is the bit I want to put under the microscope.

Why is that so hard to imagine ? There are many parts of my plan I'd drop if it wasn't mandated by state and national law.

[excon]

Hello again:

I NOW think Obamacare is DOOMED. But, he did it HIMSELF. You right wingers had NOTHING to do with it..

BECAUSE it's doomed, I believe Ted Cruz will win the presidency, and the country will take a sharp turn to the right.

BECAUSE the country will take that turn, we're doomed.

excon

[speechlesstx]

Yes, I gathered that aspect of the discussion. Not believing that seems like a pretty good inference to me. I think that goes without saying.

However, I was also interested in the claim that people who buy a certain types of policies are not idiots. They know what they want and they did it out of choice.

This is the bit I want to put under the microscope.

See my last post, we've been putting that under the microscope.

[Tuttyd]

Why is that so hard to imagine ? There are many parts of my plan I'd drop if it wasn't mandated by state and national law.

Because you are probably in a position of choice. Not everyone is in that position. Some people are forced to make choice out of necessity.

[smoothy]

Hello again:

I NOW think Obamacare is DOOMED. But, he did it HIMSELF. You right wingers had NOTHING to do with it..

BECAUSE it's doomed, I believe Ted Cruz will win the presidency, and the country will take a sharp turn to the right.

BECAUSE the country will take that turn, we're doomed.

excon

Well it woiuld be an absolute impossibility to go further left than we have been for 5 years. If Stalin walked out of his crypt tomarrow and the Democrats, the dead of the last 100 years and the liberal press elected him... it would still be a sharp turn to the right.

[Tuttyd]

See my last post, we've been putting that under the microscope.

I am not defending Obamacare. I see it as a bad attempt at solving the problem that already existed. Namely, the people who have no insurance and the people who are under insured. I don't see any positive alternative solutions being canvassed. It seems that out of mind is out of sight for the time being.

[tomder55]

Because you are probably in a position of choice. Not everyone is in that position. Some people are forced to make choice out of necessity.

Yeah life sucks . I made lots of sacrifices and choices too when I was younger . I made the choice to stay home on weekends instead of going to the clubs ,to work OT and 2 or 3 jobs when necessary . I saved and still furnish my house with furniture I picked up 25 years ago . I could go on and on . I have sympathy for the real hardships... but there are many that are self inflicted based on the choices they make .

[talaniman]

I won't get hung up on what they sell there inadequate cheap products for, double, triple whatever, but in almost every case of sticker shock, so far, when its been explored deeper its always comes out there is a savings that goes with better services and benefits. That's what the outcry about the Hannity was about. He focused on a letter raising and changing a policy that was liked and affordable but none of his guest where asked or shown what their options were. Another reporter did, and they all saved money and got more bang for their buck. That's all of them.

So far that's held, but detractors never, ever look beyond the sticker shock, or acknowledge their own good health that they didn't have to find out the hard way that the plans they pay cheap ain't worth crap if their health develops issues. Many, I mean millions, have been through this, and suffered greatly financially, and physically from lack of adequate insurance and past practice profits before people policies. Its well documented and the cause for new regulations and laws in the first place along with RAPIDLY rising costs that consumers have to bear.

All these sticker shock horror stories you cite Speech, of people being kicked off there insurance they like, pales GREATLY with the stories of people that have been helped. People who would have died without that help.

Never once have you questioned the action of providers but when they say Obama made me do it boy do you jump on that band wagon with no regard to anything else. I NEVER regarded you as stupid or an idiot, but you are very stubborn. You can't just ignore the good and focus on the bad and have no inclination to help fix it, if indeed it needs fixing. That make YOU the problem not the system, and I can point out the co operating states have already begun to show progress overcoming their problems while you repubs just sit and blame the LAW, and Obama for YOUR problems.

It's only been a month, and already a lack of good faith effort is sorely lacking, and YOUR citizens will and are suffering. That's really sad.

[smoothy]

Now the Obama administration is strong arming the insurance companies not to report all the millions of people they forced to drop from obamacare !

The White House 'Pressured' Insurance Execs to Keep Quiet About Obamacare: Report | Video | TheBlaze.com

CNN notes multiple sources declined comment on this claim, presumably out of fear of retribution.

However, there was one insurance insider who was wiling to go on the record.

“The White House is exerting massive pressure on the industry, including the trade associations, to keep quiet,” said insurance industry consulting firm head Bob Laszewski.

Laszewski, a longtime opponent of the law, said he has been asked by industry leaders to speak out on their behalf because they feel as if their hands have been tied. Plus, Laszewski notes, the federal government is a huge customer for the industry (so insurance executives can only say so much).

He said industry insiders are embarrassed that they had to cancels plans, forcing consumers into larger — and possibly more expensive — coverage.

[talaniman]

Just another idiot whose plan they liked got dropped to be replaced by a much better obamacare plan at nearly twice the price, double the copays and a huge increase on capped expenses...

Obamacare: Unfair to the young middle class, punished enough already - latimes.com

That was a good blog and highlights several issues that are not related to the new law. The blogger points to wealth inequality, and the fact that the recession has caused huge numbers of young people to be adversely affected while others actually saw a dramatic rise in wealth. Wall Street made out, and so have insurance companies. Main Street is losing and falling further behind.

Do you really think without ACA the cost you bear for anything will go down? It never has and that's a fact. Glad you don't mind that.

[Tuttyd]

Yeah life sucks . I made lots of sacrifices and choices too when I was younger . I made the choice to stay home on weekends instead of going to the clubs ,to work OT and 2 or 3 jobs when necessary . I saved and still furnish my house with furniture I picked up 25 years ago . I could go on and on . I have sympathy for the real hardships... but there are many that are self inflicted based on the choices they make .

Well, I guess that bundles unfettered individualism into a neat package. Not a lot more to say really.

[talaniman]

There is plenty of room for individualism, but there must be equal protection under the law for all, or else you have chaos, and not order.

[speechlesstx]

There is plenty of room for individualism, but there must be equal protection under the law for all, or else you have chaos, and not order.

There must be responsibility, this is a huge tax on responsible, hard working Americans and we're getting less bang for the buck in spite of your insistence it's all good.

Obamacare Is the Worst-Case Scenario

[talaniman]

Translation - The market based for profit trickle down capitalist system is broken, and should be SCRAPPED.

I agree.

[smoothy]

Tal is trying to get the position as the new spokesman for Koolaid.

[J_9]

Hello again:

I NOW think Obamacare is DOOMED. But, he did it HIMSELF. You right wingers had NOTHING to do with it..

By George! I think he's got it!

[talaniman]

Tal is trying to get the position as the new spokesman for Koolaid.

Just pointing out you guys love to holler, and blame, but do nothing to fix anything, not even clean up your own messes.

[J_9]

but do nothing to fix anything, not even clean up your own messes.

Care to elaborate? Look at the mess we are in now. What you see is the media, I am in the front lines. This is a mess that is going to take generations to fix.

On the first sign up date there were only 6 people who were able to sign up. Care to explain how that was effective?

[talaniman]

Kentucky had 60,000. Similar results in states that actually got busy to fix the problem. The real issues are with states that didn't do squat but complain and holler, and DID NOTHING.

[speechlesstx]

Just pointing out you guys love to holler, and blame, but do nothing to fix anything, not even clean up your own messes.

The irony is almost unbelievable.