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cdad · Aug 25, 2013, 06:50 AM

Originally Posted by talaniman

Likely the unions will negotiate good terms for it members. That's what they do. Blue collar guys may have different needs than others, especially the seasonal ones.

Likely they will not is more like the truth. If they had negotiated properly then we wouldn't be having the mess we are in. I have seen plenty of businesses shut down by the unions. Why? Because they think they have a blank check when it comes to contracts. Reality says different.

talaniman · Aug 25, 2013, 07:22 AM

Economic reality is that market and management affect the health of business more than unions do, and there is profit to be made buying and selling a business that has nothing to do with labor agreements.

But, if you are of the mindset that workers who help turn your idea into profit have no stake in the success or failure of what ever business you have then of course its very easy to blame the workers for failure. The fact is that most workers, union or not are the first to make adjustments to business during leaner times.

I use the loss of manufacturing jobs as a case where after MANY years of wage stagnation and contract concessions, still lost jobs to cheaper labor elsewhere across the globe. In almost every case, workers lost a livelihood and everything else they worked hard for, while business thrived even more.

So to blame unions for business decisions is basically prejudicial, and misguided. The boss lost his business, but he seldom loses a dime. I respectfully submit that investors and upper management make out like the bandits they are while passing the loses onto workers, and former workers who believed the promises of security that was wiped out by business shenanigan they have no power over.

All business seems to care about is the cheapest labor they can get, because free labor is illegal.

speechlesstx · Aug 26, 2013, 04:11 AM

While those evil corporations are busy apparently running roughshod over employees, the architects of Obamacare are helping them while raking in the big bucks as lobbyists.

ObamaCare's architects reap windfall as Washington lobbyists - The Hill - covering Congress, Politics, Political Campaigns and Capitol Hill | TheHill.com

Must be nice to be able to use legislative power to create a cushy job for yourself while shoveling the disastrous consequences off on the little guy.

paraclete · Aug 26, 2013, 04:16 AM

Yes it is obvious some people can't sleep at night

tomder55 · Aug 31, 2013, 11:50 AM

Remember when there was a penalty for the individual mandate for not signing onto a plan ? Then SCOTUS twisted the wording of the law and called it a "tax " to justify it's constitutionality ? Well the Obots have renamed it once again.

The final rule on Obamacare's individual mandate, released this week by the IRS , uses the term “Shared Responsibility Payment for Not Maintaining Minimum Essential Coverage” more than 50 times to describe the mandate's penalty, ooops I mean tax. \
http://www.irs.gov/PUP/newsroom/REG-148500-12%20FR.pdf

paraclete · Aug 31, 2013, 03:39 PM

How you must hate that concept of shared responsibility, otherwise known as socialism

tomder55 · Aug 31, 2013, 03:58 PM

A tax is a tax... a penalty is a penalty . To call it "shared responsibility" is dishonest Orwellian Obama-speak. Don't look now ;but the emperor is about to embark on another "kinetic military action ". But I digress . It should be noted that the emperor and Congress have deemed it fine that they and their staff are exempt from this "shared responsibility" I guess some pigs are more equal than others.

excon · Aug 31, 2013, 05:16 PM

Hello again,

a tax is a tax .

Tax, schmax... People will LIVE now who would have died...

Excon

paraclete · Aug 31, 2013, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by tomder55

a tax is a tax ....a penalty is a penalty . to call it "shared responsibility" is dishonest Orwellian Obama-speak. Don't look now ;but the emperor is about to embark on another "kinetic military action ". But I digress . It should be noted that the emperor and Congress have deemed it fine that they and their staff are exempt from this "shared responsibility" I guess some pigs are more equal than others.

But this term was used by the same organisation that brought you the investigation of right wing charitable organisations, I know you think they are biased but there is nothing tax collectors like more than a good tax they can get their teeth into, after all, all tax is to fund a shared responsibility

tomder55 · Sep 1, 2013, 03:04 AM

Nah ,taxes properly employed and administered fund the necessary duties of the government . You lefties use it as a redistribution tool and call it shared responsibility to disguise the theft .

Tuttyd · Sep 1, 2013, 03:44 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

nah ,taxes properly employed and administered fund the necessary duties of the government . You lefties use it as a redistribution tool and call it shared responsibility to disguise the theft .

A leftie?

talaniman · Sep 1, 2013, 04:47 AM

Hospital and taxpayers who bear the cost of emergency room visits is redistribution too isn't it? Why are you for that?

speechlesstx · Sep 3, 2013, 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by talaniman

Hospital and taxpayers who bear the cost of emergency room visits is redistribution too isn't it? Why are you for that?

I thought that was what you lefties expected from those who have and corporations making gazillions, paying our fair share to help the needy.

talaniman · Sep 3, 2013, 03:26 PM

I wouldn't have a beeyatch if it were just you and your corporations, but taxpayers? You and your corporations don't pay your fair share in taxes or wages.

cdad · Sep 3, 2013, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by talaniman

I wouldn't have a beeyatch if it were just you and your corporations, but taxpayers?? You and your corporations don't pay your fair share in taxes or wages.

What is a fair share ?

paraclete · Sep 3, 2013, 04:31 PM

Oh I don't know can we settle for 110%

speechlesstx · Sep 4, 2013, 05:07 AM

Originally Posted by talaniman

I wouldn't have a beeyatch if it were just you and your corporations, but taxpayers?? You and your corporations don't pay your fair share in taxes or wages.

Who is this "you" you speak of? I pay my taxes.

paraclete · Sep 4, 2013, 05:29 AM

Yeah I used to do that but it's a bad scene so Now I don't need to, very liberating, I figure I don't need any air craft carriers this year

smoothy · Sep 4, 2013, 05:59 AM

How about just admitting.. if you can afford to have an Iphone... you can afford to pay for your own medical insurance.

excon · Sep 4, 2013, 05:59 AM

Hello again,

Yeah, yeah, yeah... Obamacare is flawed. But, the right wing has NO plan. They want a repeal to WHAT, I've asked before. I'm told back to what we had.

Or, maybe I wasn't, because the response was muddled. I'm asking for a CLEAR and CONCISE plan, if you have one...

But, you DON'T, and we ain't NEVER going back to a time when people died because they didn't have health insurance...

So, until YOU have a plan, your criticism falls on deaf ears.. It's the LAW. It's going to REMAIN the LAW. You need to get OVER it.

excon