[NeedKarma]

Anyone but the mom and/or dad, the people who love her most and know her better than anyone, right?

It all depends on her experience with her parents. It is always preferable to keep it in the family as it were.

[speechlesstx]

It all depends on her experience with her parents. It is always preferable to keep it in the family as it were.

I agree, but in a rational world whoever she confides in would involve the parents in most cases, one way or another.

[speechlesstx]

One tough woman won a battle in Texas' version of the war on women.

A bill that opponents claimed would virtually ban abortion in Texas failed to pass late Tuesday after lawmakers missed a deadline by just minutes.

There were chaotic scenes after a filibuster attempt fell just short and protesters cheered, clapped and shouted from 11:45 p.m. to midnight and beyond as lawmakers tried to hold the vote before the session ended at midnight (1 a.m. ET).

The filibuster by Sen. Wendy Davis, D-Fort Worth, who wore a back brace, lasted almost 11 hours but ended after three challenges to her speech were upheld.

The only way Democrats in the Republican-controlled Senate could defeat the measure was by not letting it come to a vote on Tuesday.

Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst, acting as Senate president, initially said the voting began just before midnight, NBCDFW.com reported, and several reports suggested that the bill had been passed after a 19-10 vote and would go to Gov. Rick Perry.

But Dewhurst later announced that the vote had been held too late.

The problem with the bill?

The measure would have banned abortions after 20 weeks of pregnancy and would have required all clinics to be graded as surgical centers, with all doctors required to have admitting privileges at hospitals. It's estimated that nearly all of the state's clinics wouldn't have been able to meet the new standards.

We can't have standards to protect women now can we? OK, so maybe requiring them to graded as surgical centers might be a little extreme, or is it? Would you have a D&C in just any ol' clinic?

[excon]

Hello again, Steve:

Look. You don't give a sh1t about medical procedures... You're NOT interested in a D&C, or admitting privileges. Why are you talking about them? You're pissed because abortion WASN'T curtailed. Just say it.

excon

[speechlesstx]

Hello again, Steve:

Look. You don't give a sh1t about medical procedures... You're NOT interested in a D&C, or admitting privileges. Why are you talking about them? You're pissed because abortion WASN'T curtailed. Just say it.

excon

There you go, try and have a reasonable discussion and you froth at the mouth instead. It was reasonable question, one that deserves to be answered. Do you want women in clinics like Gosnells or do you think abortion clinics should be regulated in any way? Put your money where your mouth is, ex, or like PP is that we want to make abortions "safe and rare" just empty words?

[excon]

Hello Steve:

No, like ANY supporter of abortion, I want ALL baby's to be torn limb from limb... And, you CARE about women's health and D&C's.

Ok?? Happy now? Do you want to keep bullsh1tting or should we get on with it?

excon

[speechlesstx]

Forgive my naïveté, but before Gosnell I just assumed that abortion clinics were held to some sort of standards, subject to inspections and such - especially those who perform late term abortions. It is SURGERY so why would anyone throw a fit, in fact in this case, totally disrupt the Texas legislature to see to it that women are not protected by a medical standard? Really?? Would you have a colonoscopy at an unregulated clinic?

[excon]

Would you have a colonoscopy at an unregulated clinic?

Hello again, Steve:

If you right wingers OUTLAWED it, what choice would I have?

Excon

PS> Are we still pretending that your position on abortion is based on women's health?? Ok, I'll play along.

[talaniman]

I have seen some bad ones myself Speech and I had assumed things had gotten better, but I agree there is a need for more regulation and oversight, but my problem is in the area of compliance because the structural changes as a practical matter cannot happen in the time the states, including Texas is demanding.

Now if your goal is to shut down a specific business immediately, which it is, then denying a proper period of compliance is the tool to use, and that's been the conservative MO for many years. I stop at admitting privileges though, for now.

[speechlesstx]

Hello again, Steve:

If you right wingers OUTLAWED it, what choice would I have?

Excon

You know I have not called for a ban and don't believe that would ever happen.

PS> Are we still pretending that your position on abortion is based on women's health?? Ok, I'll play along.

Uh, we aren't the ones that have been pretending abortion was a "women's health" issue all this time. That's MY point, it either is or it isn't, and if it IS you wouldn't object to making sure their clinics were SAFE. Besides, I thought you guys LOVED regulations.

[speechlesstx]

I have seen some bad ones myself Speech and I had assumed things had gotten better, but I agree there is a need for more regulation and oversight, but my problem is in the area of compliance because the structural changes as a practical matter cannot happen in the time the states, including Texas is demanding.

Now if your goal is to shut down a specific business immediately, which it is, then denying a proper period of compliance is the tool to use, and that's been the conservative MO for many years. I stop at admitting privileges though, for now.

I have never seen anything have no compliance window, care to elaborate?

[excon]

Hello again, Steve:

You know I have not called for a ban

But, you DO support the defeated Texas bill, that would have left the state of Texas with 2 abortion clinics.

For a poor women living across the state, that's a ban. You can call it something else, and you will, but it's a BAN.

Excon

[talaniman]

It goes well beyond clean and sanitary as doorways and hallways have to be expanded to meet the NEW compliance codes that Texas is trying to mandate.

Texas Abortion Bill Could Close Most Of State's Clinics

part of a growing national trend of so-called "TRAP" (Targeted Regulation of Abortion Providers) bills, would require all abortion clinics in Texas to meet the same physical requirements as ambulatory surgical centers, even if they do not perform surgical abortions. Clinics would have to have surgical operating rooms of at least 240 square feet, specific flooring for janitors' closets, and new ventilation systems that can sterilize operating rooms and regulate the humidity of administrative offices -- all requirements that would be hard to fulfill.

Only five of the 42 clinics in Texas are currently licensed as ambulatory surgical centers, according to a Planned Parenthood spokesperson. If the bill becomes law, the other 37 clinics will either be forced to close down or to undergo costly and extensive building renovations in order to comply. The five clinics that would remain open are in Texas' major metropolitan areas -- Dallas, Houston, Austin and San Antonio -- so women in most rural parts of Texas would have to drive much farther in order to access abortion care.

Texas legislators have already passed a mandatory ultrasound law, a law mandating a 24-hour waiting period before abortions and a law prohibiting Planned Parenthood from participating in the state's low-income Women's Health Program.

Only 11 of the clinics that would be affected by the new TRAP bill are Planned Parenthood clinics -- the rest are independent providers.

[speechlesstx]

It goes well beyond clean and sanitary as doorways and hallways have to be expanded to meet the NEW compliance codes that Texas is trying to mandate.

Texas Abortion Bill Could Close Most Of State's Clinics

What did that have to do with a compliance window?

[speechlesstx]

Hello again, Steve:

But, you DO support the defeated Texas bill, that would have left the state of Texas with 2 abortion clinics.

For a poor women living across the state, that's a ban. You can call it something else, and you will, but it's a BAN.

excon

Do you care about the health and safety of women or not? That is the question.

[talaniman]

What did that have to do with a compliance window?

Out of compliance is cause for immediate shutdown. There is no clause that allows them time to comply or arrange to comply. That's like your job changes the certification requirements tomorrow and give you until the next day to meet those requirements.

Would that be fair?

Do you care about the health and safety of women or not? That is the question.

I care and I am sure we all do, and speaking for myself, and NOT EX, I think poor women should get the same care as well to do women. The laws by states to limit, or eliminate abortions vastly affects poor women.

That makes you a bully!!

[speechlesstx]

Out of compliance is cause for immediate shutdown. There is no clause that allows them time to comply or arrange to comply. That's like your job changes the certification requirements tomorrow and give you until the next day to meet those requirements.

Would that be fair?

I wasn't taking a position, I was asking you, what does the bill say about a window of compliance? No dancing around, I want to know what the bill says about that and then I will give an answer.

I care and I am sure we all do, and speaking for myself, and NOT EX, I think poor women should get the same care as well to do women. The laws by states to limit, or eliminate abortions vastly affects poor women.

That makes you a bully!!

Oh waaa! You just throw that crap out to try and end the debate and make us look like knuckle draggers which makes YOU the bully. Can you lefties even have a discussion without resorting to such bullsh!t?

It's a simple question, do you think abortion clinics should be subject to standards? Do you think they should be regulated, inspected, what? I mean really Tal, if we can't come to an agreement on making the places safe we can't agree on anything. I'm willing, are you? Or is the institution of abortion more sacred than the lives of the women you claim to protect?

[excon]

It's a simple question, do you think abortion clinics should be subject to standards?

Hello again, Steve:

Now, you're telling us that you CARE about the size of the hallways in abortion clinics... Who're you trying to kid? You and your state, want 'em CLOSED down.

You ASK about standards, as though they MATTER to you. But, as tal was explaining to you, these AREN'T standards aimed at the health of the woman.. They're aimed at SHUTTING the clinics down..

As long as you PRETEND they're otherwise, you're not going to get serious debate from me because you can't even talk about what's REALLY going on ON the ground...

Over to you, Pretender...

Excon

[talaniman]

You can defend yourself against me, but can poor women and children and old people defend themselves against the laws the right wing proposes?

Looking up the time for compliance procedure, which is subject to change from the existing one, if the legislature passes a new law, which would bring existing buildings into the same realm as new ones. Under the old law they are under compliance I will note.

[speechlesstx]

Hello again, Steve:

Now, you're telling us that you CARE about the size of the hallways in abortion clinics... Who're you trying to kid?? You and your state, want 'em CLOSED down.

You ASK about standards, as though they MATTER to you. But, as tal was explaining to you, these AREN'T standards aimed at the health of the woman.. They're aimed at SHUTTING the clinics down..

As long as you PRETEND they're otherwise, you're not going to get serious debate from me because you can't even talk about what's REALLY going on ON the ground...

Over to you, Pretender...

excon

Dude, I repeat - it is not we who have made the issue one about women's health and making abortion "safe and rare." I have always supported that notion in reality, not empty words. Either put up or shut up, do we make sure clinics are safe or not? It's not a hard question.

Signed -not the pretender.