[speechlesstx]

Another of those unintended consequences of liberal/progressive policies, an underground economy?

Something fishy is going on in consumers' wallets.

Household spending has held up surprisingly well in recent months, even though new taxes have reduced paychecks and other problems are holding back the economy. Incomes haven't risen by nearly enough to explain the entire boost in spending. Nor has the use of credit cards.

When your teenager starts wearing expensive clothes and flashing bling he couldn't possibly afford through his part-time job, you start to wonder where the money is coming from. Some economists are asking the same question about consumers who seem more flush than they ought to be. The answer may lie in the large "underground" economy that doesn't show up in official statistics.

There are always some businesses and individuals operating on a cash basis to dodge taxes, evade regulations or conceal illegal activity. Economists now speculate that the underground economy may have swelled during the last few years, given all the people who can't find full-time work at decent pay.

"Severe recessions have historically driven jobless Americans into the shadow economy," writes Bernard Baumohl of the Economic Outlook Group. "We suspect the destructive nature of the last downturn and the prolonged weak recovery pushed a record number of people into that murky world of cash transactions."

I suspect unless we shift from direction Obama is trying to take us the underground economy is going to grow.

[talaniman]

You righties can't be that dumb can you? The underground economy has been alive ,well, and growing for more than half a century, and now you find out about it, and are outraged and blame the new guy for it. Or some liberal progressive conspiracy.

What will you do when you find out about the other economy the one that the rich and uber rich live in? What haven't heard? That's been going on even longer. America is haves, have not's, and will never gets, and all have been here a long time.

You really do need to get out more. We've been tying to pull your coat in these threads but you rather throw rocks and ignore facts so hope you're woke now.

[speechlesstx]

Right back at you, Tal. You think trying to make the rich pay their "fair share" is going to make them more honest when it just gives incentives to avoid the system. You'd rather expand the tax rates instead of the tax base.

You keep trying to tell us that Obamacare is no obstacle to hiring and yet the evidence that it is just keeps growing. You think more regulations is the way to prosperity and yet more people are apparently willing to risk the underground economy to avoid your regulations and penalties.

Been telling you these things for a long time there, buddy. It's one of those ways you run out of other people's money to pay for your programs.

It's not outrage on my part, it's get a clue. People protect themselves FROM government overreach. Do you blame them?

[paraclete]

or we have Obamacare taxing the the value of the sale of our home. Yes the Fed is part of the problem ... Clete's suggestion is tongue in cheek (maybe ) ...But maybe not . The idea of taxing inactivity or non-commerce ;or a "tax " to force someone to engage in commerce was inconceivable to me before Obamacare .

Tom my suggestion wasn't so much tongue in cheek as a way of kick starting a dormant economy. You see, Tom, when the return for business activity is less than the return you can get by leaving your money in the bank there are those who think taking the risk free rate preferable to taking risk, this is fine for mum and dad savings accounts but not for leading industries. So here's a different twist on the same thing, dormant funds in corporate bank accounts be deposited with the federal reserve with interest paid at the ruling rate which right now is zero %, a risk free investment; they may as well buy bonds.

Did you notice that Cypress has modified the levy to be more targeted so those with real money take a hair cut?

To all those who speak about insurrection when a government makes a decision they are elected to make I say the second amendment was not provided for this purpose

[tomder55]

Tom my suggestion wasn't so much tongue in cheek as a way of kick starting a dormant economy. You see, Tom, when the return for business activity is less than the return you can get by leaving your money in the bank there are those who think taking the risk free rate preferable to taking risk, this is fine for mum and dad savings accounts but not for leading industries. So here's a different twist on the same thing, dormant funds in corporate bank accounts be deposited with the federal reserve with interest paid at the ruling rate which right now is zero %, a risk free investment; they may as well buy bonds.

Did you notice that Cypress has modified the levy to be more targetted so those with real money take a hair cut?

To all those who speak about insurrection when a government makes a decision they are elected to make I say the second amendment was not provided for this purpose

I am proud of the people of Cyprus for calling out the government when they tried that class warfare garbage . Theft is theft ,and when a government elected by the people do it ,it's worse because that gives a bad name to democratic governance . You think the money in the bank is ill-gained ,then there are legal remedies .

[tomder55]

So here's a different twist on the same thing, dormant funds in corporate bank accounts be deposited with the federal reserve with interest paid at the ruling rate which right now is zero %, a risk free investment; they may as well buy bonds.

You make it sound like it's the government's money to play with.. it's not .If the government wants businesses to invest ,then there are ways to get it done without 3rd world tin pot dictator tactics .All you are doing is a prescription for capital flight.

[paraclete]

You make it sound like it's the government's money to play with .. it's not .If the government wants businesses to invest ,then there are ways to get it done without 3rd world tin pot dictator tactics .All you are doing is a prescription for capital flight.

Yes Tom and it might fly to a country with stable government, real interest rates and industries to invest in. You don't want to use your money in the US we'll take it and make our industries hum.

As to Cypress, yes peaceful protest is a good thing and got the government to rethink rather than letting the EU do their thinking for them. A good outcome for both sides. Who can know if money originates from criminal activity outside a nation's borders but Cypress has become a haven for Russian mafia money so who cares if they take a hair cut, it is better than losing it all in a bank collapse and this might be a model for future bailouts making investors think twice about where they put their money. However it's all academic since the plan has been rejected for the time being

[smoothy]

Rejected yes... but now some degenerate somewhere is now rolling that idea around in their head abut how to do it and make it sound like its patriotic to get mugged and offer to bend over and spread 'em willingly.

I suspect right now the mental midgets in the Owebama administration are making such plans in their back room right now.

That's the sort of thing someone like him would pull. Probably wouldn't see a real vote either just like Obamacare.

[tomder55]

making investors think twice about where they put their money.

they no doubt are making that decision now about banks in Cyprus. Doubt if the people who ran to the ATMs are likely to return any time soon.

[paraclete]

Rejected yes...but now some degenerate somewhere is now rolling that idea around in their head abut how to do it and make it sound like its patriotic to get mugged and offer to bend over and spread 'em willingly.

I suspect right now the mental midgets in the Owebama administration are making such plans in their back room right now.

Thats the sort of thing someone like him would pull. Probably wouldn't see a real vote either just like Obamacare.

As I said in another thread your leading corporations are holding sufficient cash funds to repay the national debt. No doubt this hasn't escaped the administrations attention and I could conceive they would want to give these "job creators" a Cyprus hair cut, or at least an incentive to put that money to use in internal job creation.

What this tells me is your tax rates are too low

[speechlesstx]

As I said in another thread your leading corporations are holding sufficient cash funds to repay the national debt. No doubt this hasn't escaped the administrations attention and I could concieve they would want to give these "job creators" a Cyprus hair cut, or at least an incentive to put that money to use in internal job creation.

What this tells me is your tax rates are too low

Yes, heaven forbid businesses - like people - protect their assets from the greedy bureaucrats in DC. What it tells me is not taxes are too low, it tells me government is too big.

[smoothy]

Yes, heaven forbid businesses - like people - protect their assets from the greedy bureaucrats in DC. What it tells me is not taxes are too low, it tells me government is too big.

I'd like to see Australia RAISE their corporate taxes to the level ours are... and see if they feel the same.

In fact everyone should... ours is already the highest if not among the highest in the world.

[paraclete]

I'd like to see Australia RAISE their corporate taxes to the level ours are...and see if they feel the same.

In fact everyone should....ours is already the highest if not among the highest in the world.

I can hear that band playing again, the Colonel Boggie March, I think it is.

It goes do dah, do dah, it's all the band could play, do dah, do dah, they played it night and day, DO Dah, DO DAH!

If you look at the effective rate not the nominal rate you will find the US effective corporate tax rate is much lower than Australia's
Report card on effective corporate tax rates - Economics - AEI

The 2009 EATR shows you at 15.9% and us at 25.9% so much for the hard done US corporation who like the rich in the US don't pay enough in effective tax

[smoothy]

I can hear that band playing again, the Colonel Boggie March, I think it is.

It goes do dah, do dah, it's all the band could play, they played it night and day, DO Dah, DO DAH!

If you look at the effective rate not the nominal rate you will find the US effective corporate tax rate is much lower than Australia's
Report card on effective corporate tax rates - Economics - AEI

The 2009 EATR shows you at 15.9% and us at 25.9% so much for the hard done US corporation who like the rich in the US don't pay enough in effective tax

You really believe those fudged numbers? How about REAL tax rates instead of fudged effective numbers...

That's just like Owebama claiming unemployment numbers are down... when the unfudged numbers prove otherwise.

Fudged numbers are subject to too much manipulation to suit someone's desired outcome.

This from the Holy Gospel of the left... the New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/bu...ates.html?_r=0

Our tax rate is 35% behind only Japan at 39.5%

[paraclete]

smoothy haven't you ever heard of deductions? Rebates? incentives? You don't really believe the nominal rate is the actual rate paid, do you?

[smoothy]

smoothy haven't you ever heard of deductions? rebates?, incentives? you don't really believe the nominal rate is the actual rate paid, do you?

Haven't you ever heard of numbers being fudges by selectively leaving things out.. or inflating them to reflect your beliefs... knowing most people don't have the abilities to disprove your invented numbers? When is the last journalist or publication that had people thrown in prison for publishing false information?

[paraclete]

No smoothy we do not have a Department of Disinformation but obviously you do

[tomder55]

No smoothy we do not have a Department of Disinformation but obviously you do

Oh yeah ;there is no attempt to control the news in Aussie .
News Ltd boss attacks 'Soviet-style' media reforms - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

[paraclete]

We have enough news services for the truth to become apparent, after all this is all any of us can hope for

[tomder55]

Government media watchdog ? Public interest test ? Sounds like you are travelling down the road to a Department of Disinformation to me . "all the news the government deems worthy to print" .