[cdad]

A paper trail could help the cops and prosecute the perps. Especially a national paper trail.

So your position at this time is for a national gun registry ?

[Wondergirl]

So your position at this time is for a national gun registry ?

Why would that be a bad thing?

[talaniman]

Yes, so the law can trace weapons used in crimes. And trace guns sold in Texas at a gun show to gang bangers, and prosecute them before they use them.

I think its important to look twice at a person buying a car load of gloks and paying for them on a Walmart salary, don't you?

[tomder55]

Here is I think the second causality of the Journal News publishing gun owners' addresses...
of course, there is "no indication of at this time" that it was connected to that list from Journal News. From my local television news :

Thieves steal guns, permits and cash from New City home (January 17, 2013 2:19 PM)

NEW CITY - A New City homeowner was allegedly robbed of guns, cash, pistol permits and a gun safe last night.

Clarkstown police say they responded to a call on Britta Lane around 10:00 p.m. yesterday and found the house ransacked. They say two safes located on the upper level of the home were found to be pried open. A third safe located in the basement was missing.

In total, two handguns, a .45 caliber Colt and .22 caliber Iver Johnson, were stolen along with an undetermined amount of cash, U.S. Savings Bonds, jewelry and a Rockland and Orange County pistol permits.

Police say there is no indication at this time that the crime was connected at all to the gun map that was published by The Journal News.

[cdad]

Yes, so the law can trace weapons used in crimes. And trace guns sold in Texas at a gun show to gang bangers, and prosecute them before they use them.

This makes no sense and a registry isn't going to do anything about it. Checking the status of a person buying guns doesn't require a registry for guns. If the gang banger in question is of legal status to buy a gun then by law it is OK to sell it to them. The law can already trace the footprints of a gun that is confiscated as part of a crime.

How is a registry going to help that? There are things in place already to find out where guns went and where they ended up. Using your logic I guess you would expect someone who buys a gun illegally will rush out to register it with the registry ?

[paraclete]

Police say there is no indication at this time that the crime was connected at all to the gun map that was published by The Journal News.

could it be the local police are a trifle unforthcoming?.

[talaniman]

This makes no sense and a registry isnt going to do anything about it. Checking the status of a person buying guns doesnt require a registry for guns. If the gang banger in question is of legal status to buy a gun then by law it is ok to sell it to them. The law can already trace the footprints of a gun that is confiscated as part of a crime.

How is a registry going to help that? There are things in place already to find out where guns went and where they ended up. Using your logic I guess you would expect someone who buys a gun illegally will rush out to register it with the registry ?

40% of all gun sales have no background checks. That's a big hole for a criminal to drive through. If all sales had background checks and had to be registered, maybe a criminal couldn't illegally get a gun, or a "citizen"couldn't sell it to a criminal.

So I guess you believe bangers have clean records, and good intentions?

[paraclete]

So I guess you believe bangers have clean records, and good intentions?

Well of course he believes that, he believes in Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny too, and we must not leave out the Tooth Fairy, he even believed Ronmey could be elected, or that McCain could be elected with Palin at his side.

You know that everyone is innocent until proven guilty so why should an innocent gang banger be deprived of his right to own a firearm and commit mayhem. The law is an @ss and great big @ss and it needs to change to put the onus of proof on to the gun buyer that he/she is a fit and proper person to own a gun. You could begin by preventing any person under 25 years of age from possessing a gun, in addition to excluding mental cases, felons and any person under charge for a criminal offense, or who hasn't resided at their present address for six months

[talaniman]

That's my whole point clete as honest folk obey the law but a criminal, or anarchist can circumvent the law in so many ways that the law just can't keep up. Especially if law enforcement doesn't have better tools than the criminals.

[cdad]

40% of all gun sales have no background checks. Thats a big hole for a criminal to drive thru. If all sales had background checks and had to be registered, maybe a criminal couldn't illegally get a gun, or a "citizen"couldn't sell it to a criminal.

So I guess you believe bangers have clean records, and good intentions?

Im not the one passing judgement. All I said was if they pass muster with the current laws that we have in place. Im not against state background checks. I am against a national registry.

[paraclete]

Thats my whole point clete as honest folk obey the law but a criminal, or anarchist can circumvent the law in so many ways that the law just can't keep up. Especially if law enforcement doesn't have better tools than the criminals.

Hi Tal law enforcement has to rely on better fire power but you can't even be sure of that, the whole concept of innocence has been carried too far, it should be illegal to carry a conceiled weapon, since there is no reasonable purpose for any person other than law enforcement or security to carry a weapon. It should be illegal to have a loaded semi-automatic rifle or hand gun in a public place. There is an argument whether schools should be protected by armed guards, what needs to be done is to remove the need for armed guards by removing the right to carry in public. Sporting shooters should be registered and should notify local law enforcement when hunting

[cdad]

well of course he believes that, he believes in Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny too, and we must not leave out the Tooth Fairy, he even believed Ronmey could be elected, or that McCain could be elected with Palin at his side.

You know that everyone is innocent until proven guilty so why should an innocent gang banger be deprived of his right to own a firearm and commit mayhem. The law is an @ss and great big @ss and it needs to change to put the onus of proof on to the the gun buyer that he/she is a fit and proper person to own a gun. You could begin by preventing any person under 25 years of age from possessing a gun, in addition to excluding mental cases, felons and any person under charge for a criminal offense, or who hasn't resided at their present address for six months

Sure sure, lets just eliminate any law that may hide a criminal in some way. How about rights to privacy - gone. Rights to due process-gone. Rights to property-gone.

I bet that would make the crime rates drop. How about it? How far do you want to dip in your paranoia ?

[talaniman]

The needs of the woodsman in rural areas is vastly different than those in the big city, or the average city. But to do nothing about illegal activity is a disaster.

[paraclete]

Sure sure, lets just eliminate any law that may hide a criminal in some way. How about rights to privacy - gone. Rights to due process-gone. Rights to property-gone.

I bet that would make the crime rates drop. How about it? How far do you want to dip in your paranoia ?

You see dad the whole debate has swung into the seriel but your suggestion is a good one

lets just eliminate any law that may hide a criminal in some way.

As I said you start with the presumption of innocence, let the accused be given the onus of proof it works in a number of countries. There is no such thing as being an innocent bystander to certain crimes. You also eliminate this nonsense of reading an apprehended person their rights, it is the responsibility of every citizen to know the law and if in doubt, don't do it.. So, you give them their rights at the prelinimary hearing and they can get counsel and so on. What I am saying is you eliminate all this PC bull that protects criminals

[cdad]

The needs of the woodsman in rural areas is vastly different than those in the big city, or the average city. But to do nothing about illegal activity is a disaster.

So if we background check every purchase is that enough?

[paraclete]

It certainly would go a long way as well as a withholding period to stop gunshow and private sales getting around the law

[talaniman]

Sure sure, lets just eliminate any law that may hide a criminal in some way. How about rights to privacy - gone. Rights to due process-gone. Rights to property-gone.

I bet that would make the crime rates drop. How about it? How far do you want to dip in your paranoia ?

Whoa we don't have to give up our rights to stop a criminal. Just make sure law enforcement has better tools to deal with the crooks. And who needs bullets that can penetrate a bullet proof vest?

[cdad]

It certainly would go a long way as well as a withholding period to stop gunshow and private sales getting around the law

Oh boy. Ok one thing that your not understanding is. There is no gun show loophole. It doesn't exist. It is the private sale that exists surrounding gun shows that created the name. If you go to a gun show and buy a firearm then you get a background check before you can take possession of the weapon. Gun dealers hold what is called an FFL - Federal Firearms License. It is issued on the federal (governmental) level.

[Wondergirl]

My NRA husband says guys, knowing they are in a friendly and accepted place, walk around gun shows with guns slung over their shoulders and bulging out of their pockets, looking for a private sale. That's what is meant by the "gun-sale loophole."

[talaniman]

Presently, 17 states regulate private firearm sales at gun shows. Seven states require background checks on all gun sales at gun shows (California, Rhode Island, Connecticut, Oregon, New York, Illinois and Colorado). Four states (Hawaii, Maryland, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania) require background checks on all handgun, but not long gun, purchasers at gun shows. Six states require individuals to obtain a permit to purchase handguns that involves a background check (Massachusetts, Michigan, North Carolina, Iowa, Nebraska). Certain counties in Florida require background checks on all private sales of handguns at gun shows. The remaining 33 states do not restrict private, intrastate sales of firearms at gun shows in any manner.[16][17]

Source/ Gun shows in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The remaining 99.2% of inmates reported obtaining firearms from other sources, including "From a friend/family member" (36.8%), "Off the street/from a drug dealer" (20.9%), "From a fence/black market source" (9.6%), "From a pawnshop," "From a flea market," "From the victim," or "In a burglary." 9% of inmates replied "Don't Know/Other" to the question of where they acquired a firearm and 4.4% refused to answer.[21

Ever look at who is on the board of trustees for the NRA? You should.