[TUT317]

Quite the opposite . It is a pension plan funded by the participant ,sometimes with a matching contribution by an employer. The only govt participation is a deferral of taxes until the participant starts to withdraw funds. It is very popular and allows someone to plan and fund retirement and NOT rely on the minimal amts they will receive from the Social Security system. In many cases ,these accounts have replaced traditional pension plans.

The problem for the Dems is that they see all this untapped wealth and drool . They have been planning since at least 2006 for the government seizure of 401-K plans .They claim the money would be converted to some kind of government managed accounts that would pay a guaranteed minimal rate of return .

I see. Sounds a bit like the superannuation schemes we have in Australia. We have some type of co-super scheme whereby the Australian government matches your super saving on some type of dollar for dollar basis.

I would venture to say that there are similarities and differences between us and you in terms of government involvement. Anyway, our schemes are going quite well at the moment despite government involvement.

Tut

[paraclete]

I think you are misleading them Tut, we have basically two schemes, the employer funded statutory scheme which is funded by offsets to salary increases with a current legislated12% contribution, each employee has a personal account and the private investment schemes consisting of personal contributions, the government co-payment is a very small part of that scheme, but contributions are concessionally taxed at 15%

[TUT317]

I think you are misleading them Tut, we have basicly two schemes, the employer funded statutory scheme which is funded by offsets to salary increases with a current legislated12% contribution, each employee has a personal account and the private investment schemes consisting of personal contributions, the government co-payment is a very small part of that scheme, but contributions are concessionally taxed at 15%

Thanks for the clarification.

Venturing to say was a misadventure on my part.

Thanks again for the info. I'll have to talk to my accountant.

Tut

[paraclete]

Thanks for the clarification.

Venturing to say was a misadventure on my part.

Thanks again for the info. I'll have to talk to my accountant.

Tut

Yes you should do that, the government fiddles around the edges with superannuation often making small changes to the rules

[tomder55]

Whatever the plan is ;the seizure of private accounts is criminal .If they want to change the rules about the tax advantages fine . But I participate heavily so I can retire without having to rely on the government for my upkeep.
I'll assume all the risks of having my money in the private sector. I don't need the nanny state telling me I'm not competent enough to manage my own account.

[speechlesstx]

I read something about this just yesterday.

Does Government Want To Drain Americans' 401(k) Plan?

Posted 11/28/2012 06:39 PM ET

War On Wealth: As Washington debates what to do about the fiscal cliff that it foolishly created, many potential sources of new revenue will be thrown on the table. One of them is likely to be 401(k) plans.

Retirement is an American's reasonable expectation. We put money into investment plans so that our work today funds our hard-earned leisure of tomorrow.

But many in Washington see our investment accounts not as the expressions of well-planned, disciplined decisions but as untapped reservoirs of wealth they can drain to fix the problems that they caused.

The tax protection that 401(k)s have now can be wiped out by grasping politicians who refuse to do what's right, which is to severely cut spending.

The war on retirement, particularly 401(k)s, is quiet now. But that's because it's a cold war.

And like the postwar tensions between the East and West, it could erupt at any time into a hot war.

One group of retirement plan professionals is warning that the hostilities might be closer than many of us think. The American Society of Pension Professionals and Actuaries launched on Monday, according to Reuters, "a media campaign intended to educate U.S. employers and workers that the federal government might consider changing the tax benefits of retirement savings accounts."

A website set up by the ASPPA advises account holders to tell lawmakers to "keep their hands off your retirement savings" and explains that "Congress needs to reduce the deficit, and part of deficit reduction will most likely be 'tax reform' that increases tax revenue" — the strong suggestion being that Washington is coming after Americans' 401(k)s.

If the ASPPA were alone in issuing its warnings, it could be written off as the hyperbole of an isolated group. But Washington's lust for Americans' retirement investments is well documented.

President Obama's National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform, for instance, proposed lowering the cap on the amount workers could place in their 401(k)s without incurring taxes.

And nearly three years ago, Newt Gingrich and Peter Ferrara wrote on these pages about the Treasury and Labor departments "asking for public comment on 'the conversion of 401(k) savings and Individual Retirement Accounts into annuities or other steady payment streams.'"

"In plain English," said Gingrich and Ferrara, "the idea is for the government to take your retirement savings in return for a promise to pay you some monthly benefit in your retirement years."

More than 60 million American workers have a 401(k) or similar — 403(b) or 457(b) — plan. But taxing these accounts or lowering the amount that can be contributed to them tax-free would do little to close the deficit and cut the debt.

Total assets in 401(k)s are roughly $3 trillion. So even if they were seized in their entirety, they would merely retire less than 19% of Washington's $16.3 trillion debt.

Taxed at 50%, 401(k)s would narrowly cover the $1.3 trillion deficit that Washington rang up in 2012.

Already a large chunk of America's retirement is held in the federal government's hands. Between 1937 and 2009, Social Security took in nearly $14 trillion in payroll tax revenue.

In all but 11 of those years, the government collected more than it spent on benefits.

Yet despite all the surpluses, the Social Security program is in financial trouble and Congress needs more revenue to fix it, just as it is looking for more of other people's money to avoid the fiscal cliff plunge.

Don't think for a minute that 401(k)s aren't on the table as a part of the solution.

And when they are served up in front of hungry politicians, they can be quickly devoured. All that will be left for the account holders will be a few crumbs.

Steal my money and promise to give some back? Yeah right.

"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'" -Ronald Reagan

[excon]

Hello again,

So, EVERYBODY has their sacred cow. One, two, three. Don't tax me. Tax that guy behind the tree.

I understand. You don't like that we owe, but you don't want to HELP pay for it.. That ain't right..

Look. I have the answer.. With my plan (or Romney's plan - I don't want to steal it), you can KEEP all your 401k money, we can fund the military's wish list forever, and our entitlements won't have to be touched...

Look. I'm a free market guy. But, when the free market DOESN'T self correct, then I have NO problem with the government stepping in. The health care industry has proven itself unable to STOP the runaway price increases. It's BANKRUPTING us. Food stamps aren't doing that. Unemployment isn't doing that. Unions aren't doing that. Run away health costs are.

Now, there's a fix. Romney said something about the Israeli's being able to spend 9% of GDP LESS on health care and get BETTER results... Hmmmm... Let me see. Can we do that? Aren't WE exceptional?

If I had to choose between a REAL takeover of the health care industry (the one YOU talk about is fake), or MASSIVE cuts to our military, to the safety net, and to YOUR 401k's, I'd go to where the money is.. There's enough money laying around over there to fix EVERYTHING... The only thing lacking is our WILL. Let's do it.

excon

[tomder55]

How does the individual cost of health care have anything to do with runaway spending by the government ?

[speechlesstx]

Hello again,

So, EVERYBODY has their sacred cow. One, two, three. Don't tax me. Tax that guy behind the tree.

I understand. You don't like that we owe, but you don't wanna HELP pay for it.. That ain't right.

I pay my "fair share" of taxes, I can't help it if that big government that 75% of Democrats love spends more than I pay in. Leave the rest of my stuff alone including my health care, and stop penalizing us for being responsible when government is not. It's not that complicated ex, stop wasting our money.

[excon]

Hello again, tom:

I'm not sure what you're asking...

But, here's how the math works out... YES, I know how to do arithmetic. Our GDP is around $1.7 Trillion.. Let's say we achieve only a 5% savings instead of the 9% the Israeli's do. That's about $850 Billion a year, EVERY year, that we SAVE. That's REAL money.

Now, like you, I'd RATHER my doctor be self employed and on his way to his third million, but I'd be OK with him being a civil servant, IF it meant that my beloved country would be SAVED from bankruptcy.

But, that's just me.

excon

[tomder55]

Then you'll have the Soviet Union all over with doctors saying they pretend to pay us and we pretend to work .

[excon]

Hello again, tom:

Who you going to believe? Mitt Romney, or WND?

excon

[talaniman]

You guys are a piece of work, and so misinformed. Your 401K is the exclusive domain of Wall Street, and pensions are the exclusive domain of The JOB CREATORS/and Wall Street. Government spending has nothing to do with either of them, yet as we have seen the first thing that goes when the job creators want more loot are YOUR benefits, 401K, and pensions.

Still confused? Just look at Hostess who used a Venture capital company to lower labor cost and extract high fees for themselves and bonuses for the top while NOT funding the agreed upon pension plans. That was years ago, and now they are doing the same with another venture capital company and going through liquidation through bankruptcy.

Workers left holding the bag, shareholders left with the loot. The Romney solution to bad management we voted against. That wasn't government spending screwing the workers, its Wall Street and their business model.

Now to the article you site Speech full of right wing false hoods to deflect the true nature of extractions free markets, and shift blame on politicians and government, while they loot our nest eggs, and crash our personal safety nets for profit. You better look closer as to what's been going on folks and don't forget the GLOBAL crash caused by Wall Street and their rich friends that we are still recovering from, while they have continued to loot and pillage. None of which has anything to do with the deficit, but everything to do with keeping them rolling in dough.

How does the individual cost of health care have anything to do with runaway spending by the government?

Private health care costs have been rising for years and would have done so unabated until the ACA demanded changes that made them rebate to consumers after expenses the money they collected in premiums and stopped them from cutting corners with limiting YOUR benefits. The government through Medicare and Medicaid are also victims of runaway costs as we are as consumers.

In truth we are all victims of ever rising health care costs both public, and private.

[tomder55]

Your 401K is the exclusive domain of Wall Street,

nope it's my money and if the government goes through with this plan I will join any class action suit filed against the theft .

[talaniman]

You are getting mighty excited over this conspiracy theory. True fact is the rich people who control YOUR nest egg are the ones you should watch closely.

That's who you sue when you LOSE money. Oh that's right, you can't. Bummer.

[Wondergirl]

nope it's my money and if the government goes through with this plan I will join any class action suit filed against the theft .

Your mattress is stuff with money?

[tomder55]

You are getting mighty excited over this conspiracy theory.

Obamacare was once a conspiracy theory too.

[talaniman]

To the right maybe, but to the rest of us it was a step toward a solution. I guess it was a gift to the poor and middle class women and minorities. Just one reason Obama was re elected.

Don't spread this around but righties got the gift too!

[tomder55]

Your mattress is stuff with money?

Had I done that with the money the government confiscated out of my pay check for the last 40 years ,I'd get a higher return on my investment than what I'll likely get from any Social Security payout.
But being a responsible person ,I made provisions to be able to survive on my own without what the government thinks I deserve in retirement . Now the government wants to confiscate my hard earned nest egg because they see it as a source of untapped revenue to fund their wasteful spending .

[tomder55]

To the right maybe, but to the rest of us it was a step toward a solution. I guess it was a gift to the poor and middle class women and minorities. Just one reason Obama was re elected.

Don't spread this around but righties got the gift too!

Yeah we got the shaft wrapped in a bow.