[paraclete]

Don't mention the warhead: Rocket not North Korea's only failure | News.com.au
While not a great story or even a big story, the NK failure, yet again, to send a projectile beyond the upper atmosphere was not only a big, big waste of money, it is a national disgrace. While people starve in NK its leaders play. It begs the question, should a nation this small bother with space exploration or even satellite launch? After all if it wants a weather satellite, it can be launched by someoneelse for a fraction of the cost

[tomder55]

It also violated the terms of the Leap Day agreement . I hope the President leans the futility of dealing with the Kims. Lil Kim is no different than his father and grandfather.

space exploration or even sattelite launch... yeah right... they were acting as R &D for the Iranian nuke program... why pretend otherwise ? The Iranians invest heavily in the NORK missile and nuke programs.

[paraclete]

The Iranians are way ahead of NK they must wonder why they bother, other than to keep a thorn in america's side. NK is a little closer to america but far from representing a crediable threat. I think Kim Un doesn't have a choice, he is tied into the ancestor worship thing with his father and grandfather and anything they said is sacrosanct. NK doesn't make agreements they manipulate

[tomder55]

The Iranians are way ahead of NK they must wonder why they bother, other than to keep a thorn in america's side.

Iran has money.. NK has no other way to make money.

NK is a little closer to america but far from representing a crediable threat.

They are a huge threat to nations in the region we have security obligations with .

I think Kim Un doesn't have a choice, he is tied into the ancestor worship thing with his father and grandfather and anything they said is sacrosanct

Lil Kim is too young to be calling the shots. His father set up a protectorate for him .That protectorate has not consolidated all the power yet. When Kim Jong mentally Il took over he had similar issues ,and used a series of provocations and a useful sap in the White House to consolidate control . It is his fortune that the US has a simularily naiive POTUS who thinks that one of the worse regimes in the world today can be engaged with .

NK doesn't make agreements they manipulate

They make no other kind of agreement .

[tomder55]

My only question about the launch is the nature of the failure . Was it...
1. a legit misfire ? I don't think so.
2. a shoot down by US anti-missile defense systems parked in the sea nearby ?
Possibly
3. a sabotage ? Most likely ;either from internal dissent or from an outside intelligence organization ,

[Wondergirl]

I had heard it was a problem with how it was constructed, faulty/stressed metal or something.

From http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/14/wo...portunity.html --

“This stuff is really hard to do,” David C. Wright, a senior scientist at the Union of Concerned Scientists, a private group in Cambridge, Mass. said in an interview.

However, North Korea's failures have some experts scratching their heads. They note that Iran — which has drawn on North Korean expertise to build its own families of small and large rockets — is in many respects outdoing its instructor.

Tehran fired its first satellite into space in 2009, joining the elite club of nations that have used their own technologies to send objects into orbit.

Dr. Wright suggested that North Korea might be having problems with quality control.

“Their overall design seems to make sense,” he said. “But mundane sorts of things might get in the way, such as welding. Putting it all together can be hard.”

[paraclete]

It maybe as simple as an O ring, they may not be able to make them, after all we have seen more sofisticated nations suffer similar failures. The art of welding pressure vessels has been around for a long time, reports say it fell apart pehaps suggesting an explosion, perhaps they are using self tapping screws

We can have many theories about what went wrong but esponaige is a most reasonable explanation, even the chinese would not want a nuclear armed and capiable NK and might help them fail, but it really comes down to this, you just don't know what you don't know

[Wondergirl]

Don't buy a new car made in NK.

[paraclete]

They are a huge threat to nations in the region we have security obligations with .

.

Tom they have been a huge threat to those nations for more than fifty years, they don't need nukes or long range rockets to do catastrophic damage. This rocket was a bargaining chip, but is of no value, so it's either back to the drawing board, or back to the nuclear option. Fifty years ago they had the support of communist nations, today that support is a little slender, now they are just a buffer state.

Now if the US would stop posturing and actually do something, but there is not much chance of that

[paraclete]

Don't buy a new car made in NK.

Do they have cars there?

[Wondergirl]

do they have cars there?

I saw a bus and a jeep in one photo. Usually saw people walking in the middle of four-lane highways.

[paraclete]

I saw a bus and a jeep in one photo. Usually saw people walking in the middle of four-lane highways.

That's it, no transport except official transport, four lane highways to nowhere but look beyond them and you won't find paved streets, monumental buildings but no occupants. It's all for show like some sort of grand opera stage look half of China is the same grand building projects

[tomder55]

Now if the US would stop posturing and actually do something, but there is not much chance of that

Like what ? Regime change ? I suggest using food aid as a bargaining chip is immoral . On the other hand ,we should be doing nothing that helps legitimize this regime.

Recently the NORKS sortied a handful of their submarines .The South Koreans lost track of them . I expect the next provocation will come from them .
S Korea hunts for North's missing subs - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Lil Kim's prestige is on the line with this failure. This launch was timed to celebrate the100th birthday of Lil Kim's gradfather Kim Il Sung ;and Lil Kim's installing as the new head of the National Defense Commission

[paraclete]

Nothing like paranoia and no shortage of it in america. Do you realise how small this mouse is? It is roaring at you and you are reacting. Even if all their subs attacked you would be able to take them out, they are cold war models or even earlier I can't believe this, you actually think they are a crediable threat. The only people they threaten are the South Koreans

I really can't see NK going out in a blaze of glory

[tomder55]

That little mouse can cause larger conflicts . And you are wrong. Anyway .Nukes in the hands of a mouse completely change the security parameters. I'm surprised . You live close to them than we do. Would you lijke to see uncontrolled proliferation in the region ?

[Wondergirl]

NK is the bully on the playground and simply wants validation (but is going about it all the wrong with the bluster of beautiful but empty cities, a huge army, tall statues, nuclear threats). .

[excon]

It begs the question, should a nation this small bother with space exploration or even sattelite launch?

Hello clete:

Size doesn't matter. We have little bitty companies doing it.

Besides, I find it a little funny that you picked THIS thing to criticize them about... If it were me, I'da picked the gulags or the starvation.

excon

[paraclete]

that little mouse can cause larger conflicts . And you are wrong. Anyway .Nukes in the hands of a mouse completely change the security parameters. I'm surprised . You live close to them than we do. Would you lijke to see uncontrolled proliferation in the region ?

Tom no one wants nuclear proliferation but you fail to see it from their perspective they are insecure, paranoid. They launched a war at the behest of USSR and China and they failed. They no longer regard themselves as a communist state. They keep a huge standing army because they think it is the only way to keep the rest of the world at bay. They are like a chihuahua snapping at the heals of a bull and you cannot see it.
Sure we are a little closer than you are but our major cities are further than yours and in any case we don't think they could hit the broadside of a barn with a shotgun. They have no reason to target us, we are not antagonising them. The only thing they would want from us is uranium, we would rather sell them wheat

NK is the bully on the playground and simply wants validation (but is going about it all the wrong with the bluster of beautiful but empty cities, a huge army, tall statues, nuclear threats). .

We can't use the traditional approach here of punching the bully in the nose. This is like the five year old who punches all the big kids. What I say is ignore them, isolate them, don't negotiate with them, don't send them aid. If SK wants to engage with them, let it. It is time to let NK sit on the naughty stool

[tomder55]

They will continue the provocations.. you know it and I do. How many more SK ships need be sunk;villages shelled ;Japanese citizens kidnapped ?
They are in everyone's strategic interest because of the weapon R&D they are running for the 12'ers .

[paraclete]

Well Tom cross the border and reason with them at the point of a gun. Send some aircraft carriers, perhaps some carpet bombing, you don't do it because you are all bull and bluster and you know the retaliation will fall on SK. You see you can't do it because they don't recognise your authority, Your weapons mean nothing to them, in fact given their circumstance if they were wiped out it would be a blessing to them.

They know that if they push hard enough you will buy them off with food and fuel, the two things they don't have. But you can't handle their philosophy which is basically we don't need anyone but ourselves. Capitalism doesn't work, what does capitalistic investment mean to them, nothing. They have probably seen Mcdonalds and KFC in Beijing and want none of it.

Do you resent their enterprise in doing some testing for Iran although Iran can't be getting much out of it. I don't get you guys, you back someone into a corner and complain if they look like they will fight their way out. It is the US that is the bully here