[talaniman]

QUOTE by paraclete;
Well Tal you won't get employers signing on to more people working less hours, what they want is less people working more hours. Computers have made some more productive usually at the expense of lower end jobs.

Of course you are right, its more profitable to be able to assign a persons value, and extract all the money, and we call that trickle down economics, (supply, and demand) and only works if you are at the top. A flawed business model that takes the worst characteristics of slavery and applies them to a population. They replaced chains and whips with money, but they don't discriminate according to race. White people make as good a slaves as black people.

So you think we should all be tech jocks but then no one wants to do the other work, so you have to be selective about who you train and for what. I know it's not democratic but it isn't a perfect world, there are some who have to be s**t kickers, even if you call them sanitary engineers but if we pay well for meniel tasks then more will want to do them, sort of turns the ideas around, instead of paying CEOs millions we should pay them no more that the lowest paid in their organisation. We would see a lot of better paid jobs very quickly and a very selective selection process. No dills allowed

Agreed, CEO"s should make the same as garbage men, it's the reason we formed a country, All men are created equal. Now the application to that principle is still a work in progress. You can take the slaves from the master, but no way does the master give up his slaves.

What your society did was create the situation in China, you exported all the meniel tasks and expected to keep all the high paid interesting jobs. It didn't work because other people are smart too. The Chinese were smart, they got the work and used it to transform their economy,

Naw, American businesses looked at China and said oh boy look at all that cheap labor, and future customers, and off they went ZOOOOOOM! Sure they will have more millionaires just because they have more people, but their master/slave mentality will crash in on them too, because while it's a huge economy, they rely on exports from cheap labor also, and so enslave themselves to others to survive. Namely American business men. When the labor is no longer cheap, they will find that they, like us now, have been ROBBED.

American business men will always extract the money for themselves, and without them, China cannot grow, and would be just a BIG poor nation like it is now.

And by the way, we may have taken the manufacturing jobs to China (AND other countries to be sure, even to your island), and some will get rich, but we still have some VERY interesting jobs here for the next generation. Like going to MARS!! Hehehe!

Soon there will be more chinese millionaires than there are in the US and they will be looking for someone to do the low end work

They are already doing that, but until they have a robust middle class, and do away with slave master mentality, they are screwed, no matter how they manipulaate their economy.

Keep your eye on Africa.

And India, Indonesia, and yes, Australia. Once they all set some new standards for the value of their citizens and restructure the business model. That applies to us too, just so you know.

[paraclete]

Tal you don't get it, you have identified the master slave relationship but you still think you are the master and they are the slave. Money makes slaves of everyone and right now they have the money. This is why your economy isn't recovering. They have a much longer term view than you do. You really don't understand

[tomder55]

It's the students who need the assistance , but some oversight would be nice to rein in the fees they charge.

The question is not how to make tuition more affordable, the question is why is tuition so unaffordable?
The answer is that aid to students does the most distorting... another example of government being the problem.

It is no different than the housing bubble.. Government deciding that everyone should own a home distorted the market . Government deciding everyone needed a college education paid for with guaranteed government loans distorted the market there too. Just like in the housing market ;the ones who got the loans who would not qualify under traditional lending rules were /are the ones that are most likely to default.
This also created a flood of demand on college educations which of course inflated tuitions . The colleges had to grow ;build new class rooms ;and new colleges needed to be created to meet this demand . There was also a greater demand on the need for educators . This was not met overnight so there was a greater demand on limitted classroom space and instructors . Professor and administration salaries ,health care benefits,and pensions started rising rapidly.

So now we have a bubble we can't afford to allow to burst . Enter the President to guarantee that this bubble continues into the future with guarantees that the American taxpayer will foot the bill when the students default. The President's plan ? Students can pay based on the value of the job they get immediately after their graduation . Of course no one starts in the work force on the top rung of salaries . So the student pays back based on their lower earnings... and after a number of years ,that debt is "forgiven " (the taxpayer takes on the balance) . Of course the loan is forgiven just about the time the former student enters peak earning years when the value of the eductation is finally realized .

[paraclete]

Tom you either have paid tuition or you have free tuition, this hybrid notion is very flawed as are student loans for tuition in any form. Debt is an answer to nothing, whether it be home ownership or tuition, it is a form of bondage, enslavement

[tomder55]

Before government guaranteed loans, private loans were given to the qualified . Everyone else saved or paid for their education by working . That's what I did. But back then ,my total obligation owed at the end (between paying as I went and taking out private loans ) was no more than the price of a new car. I don't believe in free anything .

[talaniman]

Tal you don't get it, you have identified the master slave relationship but you still think you are the master and they are the slave. Money makes slaves of everyone and right now they have the money. This is why your economy isn't recovering. They have a much longer term view than you do. You really don't understand

You are very correct, big business DOES have a long term view, and well known, and have the means to hedge their bets against lean times, tough times, and trying times, and can make money all they want anywhere they want, simply because they have the tools, and banks and politicians to back them up.

But to say I don't get it, after seeing what's been done for the last 40 years it was easy to see the robbery that was coming. Our economy has recovered, just not for everyone, and that's NO accident for sure, and neither is the weakening of government so the oligarchy can thrive and rule the many. That's how they have always made money, using the flawed business model that's set up to extract wealth at will, and control the circulation of money.

No Clete I only understand the system too well, and most of us slaves do, but like many slaves, who would rather be powerless, and dependent, as long as you get your few crumbs which is but a crumb above the have nots, you are more than willing to go along with the status quo, and the hell with anyone else's problems with the system.

I get you hate Americans, and hate being in a system that makes you as dependent as China, in dealing with the capitalist notion, because like me, you don't like someone else assigning your value, but unlike you, I don't look down my nose and inflate my ego by denigrating yours.

Just trying to tell you to hedge your own bets, because the same money that has enslaved me, has enslaved YOU. Unless of course you are part of the so called elite class that makes policy, and can enforce it. If you are not, take off the blinders and work in your own interest.

American Capitalism is the greatest ARMY in the world, bar none. You were conquered long ago, and pssst, tell your Gods the Chinese, SO HAVE THEY!!

[speechlesstx]

Before government guaranteed loans, private loans were given to the qualified . Everyone else saved or paid for their education by working . That's what I did. But back then ,my total obligation owed at the end (between paying as I went and taking out private loans ) was no more than the price of a new car. I don't believe in free anything .

Funny how that ethic has become so yesterday. But what else can you expect from a bunch of people that believe it when someone says "the more you buy the more you save"?

[paraclete]

But to say I don't get it, after seeing whats been done for the last 40 years it was easy to see the robbery that was coming. Our economy has recovered, just not for everyone, and thats NO accident for sure, and neither is the weakening of government so the oligarchy can thrive and rule the many. Thats how they have always made money, using the flawed business model thats set up to extract wealth at will, and control the circulation of money.

No Clete I only understand the system too well, and most of us slaves do, but like many slaves, who would rather be powerless, and dependent, as long as you get your few crumbs which is but a crumb above the have nots, you are more than willing to go along with the status quo, and the hell with anyone elses problems with the system.

I get you hate Americans, and hate being in a system that makes you as dependent as China, in dealing with the capitalist notion, because like me, you don't like someone else assigning your value, but unlike you, I don't look down my nose and inflate my ego by denigrating yours.

Let me put it this way, Tal, I don't like the way america does business. The arrogance is palpable. Their FTA impose their laws on other soveriegn nations. You may think this capitalism in action but I call it imperialism. I am not dependent upon america, I am not dependent upon China. You think your system is great, but where did it get you? In debt to a staggering amount and for what? So you can build another battleship. You think you keep the world free, but you build tensions and then sell the countries arms so they will feel safer.

The whole point is your system is unsustainable. You may have done well for the last century but this is a new century and the players have changed

[talaniman]

No Clete, I don't think our system is so great and needs massive repairs. That's why I write what I write, but to be honest, nobody holds a gun to anyone's head, and makes them sign treaties, or agreements or buy our guns, or man factories our businessmen build. The truth is for whatever reasons, we, you, and everyone else deals with others for their own self interest.

So don't get mad at us because you are nervous. Nothing personal, but that's business everywhere in the world. If its not, then why are you dealing with us. Oh that's right, neither me, nor you has that kind of power, or control.

So we do what our master tells us. If we are wrong in the way we do things, then that makes you just as wrong for doing it with us. Drop the hate, and I am not arrogant, just aware.

[paraclete]

Tal you need to move away from taking my remarks personally. You agree the system is flawed but what I say to you is you are not the masters. Why do we deal with you? It is because we have something to sell and yours is a large market, beyond that we have agreements with you that lock us into buying arms from you so our forces can cooperate more effectively. So what it comes down to is we buy big ticket items from you and of course the inevietable cultural drivel that comes from hollywood, etc.

[talaniman]

But that's the choice you make. None of us is perfect. American business ARE the masters, and they rig the system to keep it that way.

They will screw you if you deal with them, and your choice is with, or without vaseline.

[paraclete]

Who said anything about vaseline?

[talaniman]

Trust me, if you are going to be raped and robbed, you're better off with some vaseline. (hedge your bets, and have options that work for you).

[paraclete]

How does vaseline stop you from been robbed?

[talaniman]

Its just an American term. When you feel you are getting screwed.

[excon]

Hello again,

Would it be good to have REGULATIONS preventing texting in cars, or is that the bothersome nanny state again?

excon

[Stringer]

Hello again,

Would it be good to have REGULATIONS preventing texting in cars, or is that the bothersome nanny state again?

excon

On a personal basis I would say yes. At least three times this past month I gingerly passed a car that was weaving all over the highway. When I passed (and said 'Hi' with a hand jester) sure enough they were busy texting. One was using her elbow to drive. It's getting way out of hand.

Stringer

[paraclete]

Hello again,

Would it be good to have REGULATIONS preventing texting in cars, or is that the bothersome nanny state again?

excon

Hi Ex no mobile phone use while driving is the law where I come from, and I have observed the distraction caused by the phone ringing in certain driving situations is also dangerous so regulations should be extended to turning off the phone.How's that for nanny state ban?

[tomder55]

Next they'll say I can't have my morning coffee on my drive into work .

It will never happen ;or at least not on a national level . Individual states that have and set insurance laws can do the restrictions if they choose to ;but highway laws in NY can and should be different that laws in other regions. Here in NY it makes sense and that is the law of the state .

Also I think the NTSB is nuts to say you can't drive safely with hands free devices like blue tooths.

Look ;if they want an impact it's OK for them to educate and advocate that people put down their cell phones... it's a bridge too far for them to advocate national standards on the use of cell phones . Why not tomtom's ? I encounter drivers staring at ones mounted on their windshields . Why not the clown stuffing a Mc rib in his mouth ? Why not ban obnoxious kids in the passenger seats that distract the driver ?
I hear tired drivers cause an many accidents as drunk drivers.. and on and on. If no one was permitted to drive there would be no car accidents . There's a worthy goal !

[paraclete]

Tom What can I tell you? If you're stuck in traffic I see the argument but I have also observed that even with bluetooth you look to see who is calling or to read a text so out on the open road it is a great tool but in traffic! Risky!

I also note your propensity to state why you should be exempt from what others are doing, perhaps it's an american thing, after all you are smarter than the rest of us or maybe it's a New York thing.