[speechlesstx]

But, you're not the spender of last resort... You, too, like any entity in the economy, pass those costs on. You DO renegotiate your salary now and then, don't you?

Who doesn't? My salary increase doesn't necessarily get passed on. If I become more productive then that can make up the difference.

[talaniman]

milk needs regulations . What it doesn't need is price supports. Every product containing milk in this country is over priced due to Federal meddling in the market.

http://www.cato.org/pubs/tbb/tbb_0707_47.pdf

In this year’s farm bill, the Democrats have a chance
To repeal the special interest giveaways of prior Republican
Farm bills, including the regressive “milk tax.”

For once we agree.

[tomder55]

http://www.cato.org/pubs/tbb/tbb_0707_47.pdf



For once we agree.

Except for the nonsense about Republicans being responsible for this . Milk price supports probably go back to the depression era and it certainly has been a reality my whole life... and as I recall the Dems loved giving away that free government cheese.

[talaniman]

From the same link,

The federal government has subsidized and regulated
The dairy industry since the 1930s. A system of “marketing
order” regulations was enacted in 1937. A dairy price
Support program was added in 1949. An income support
Program for dairy farmers was added in 2002.
As part of this year’s farm bill, Congress may
Reauthorize dairy programs, but they are among the most
Illogical of all farm programs.1 The government spends
Billions of dollars reducing food costs through programs
Such as food stamps, yet dairy programs increase milk
Prices. Dairy programs create milk cartels, yet federal law
Generally prohibits cartels. Current dairy policies don’t
Make any sense, and they are ripe for repeal in 2007.

A bit of the back story behind those subsidies though,

Milking Trade Subsidies - WSJ.com

Protecting the American Diary market against dumping from other countries. Sort of like China does.

[speechlesstx]

except for the nonsense about Republicans being responsible for this . Milk price supports probably go back to the depression era and it certainly has been a reality my whole life......... and as I recall the Dems loved giving away that free government cheese.

Yep, since the 30s

Milk Madness

[speechlesstx]

Ex, you said something about calling them "dirty" 50 years ago. So far, there have been outbreaks of scabies, tuberculosis and multiple outbreaks of lice among the occupiers. But I know, what can you expect from people living that closely together who crap in plastic bags and otherwise have no running water or sanitation.

[excon]

Ex, you said something about calling them "dirty" 50 years ago. So far, there have been outbreaks of scabies, tuberculosis and multiple outbreaks of lice among the occupiers.

Hello again, Steve:

Yeah, changing the world ain't purty.

excon

[speechlesstx]

Yeah, it's hazardous to your health. But you are a fan of health regulations, right?

[excon]

But you are a fan of health regulations, right?

Hello again, Steve:

I'm more a fan of changing the world... Look, who's going to care about a turd or two when leadership of the free world is at stake?

excon

[speechlesstx]

I have a dog so a turd or two is no big deal, but I'm no fan of communicable diseases or parasites.

[excon]

Hello again, Steve:

Look, I'll engage you, but you don't seem to be able to get passed who the protesters are as people... I'm simply suggesting that you're missing the bigger picture... There's MORE going on here than dirt.

excon

[Wondergirl]

I have a dog so a turd or two is no big deal, but I'm no fan of communicable diseases or parasites.

What about clean food and drink?

[talaniman]

The cops and sanitation workers are probably getting paid overtime, and the occupiers would be better served by protesting all day, and going home at night, like a regular job. Specially with winter coming.

[smoothy]

We could hope a few of them die from exposure... maybe that will wake them up to reality.

[TUT317]

Look ;there was already a respiratory infection going around the NYC encampment .

Perhaps Mayor Bloomy should've let these fools endure a nor-easter in January ....let's see if they have the fortitude and will power of the patriots at the Valley Forge encampment; or if Whittle is correct .

Hi Tom,

If Bill Whittle says they should go home then I agree with him. I've been saying that all along. Nonetheless, you miss my point. I am critical of Whittle because of the reasons he puts forward as to why they should go home.

Whittle says OWS protestors should go home and be grateful to corporations for what they have given us. Grateful in the same way Hobbes says we should be grateful to the sovereign power for affording us protection. According to Hobbes we should be willing to do this in exchange for giving up our liberties and freedoms.

Yes, OWS protestors no need to worry.Go home and be thankful for the way things are and let the corporations get on with what they do best.

Tom, you are happy with this 16th century social contract theory being the basis for OWS protestors going home?

To say all civilizations collapse in the same way is nonsense. He backs up this claim with a graph showing exponential growth. The graph has no labels. It could just as easily represent the exponential grow of a fruit fly population.

His argument is nonsense on stilts

Tut

[tomder55]

Where his point is valid is that the protesters are completely detached from what it takes to get food in their mouths and ipods in their hands. They just expect to get things they feel entitled to.

I see it in the public hearings I attend. We want the electricity uninterrupted but don't build a power plant near my house. We want cell phone service but that tower is unsightly ,build it somewhere else.
We like out food prepackaged but are grossed out at the inherent conditions of a slaughter factory that mass produces the food we eat... and fewer do their own hunting and field dressing ;fishing ,or even getting their fingers dirty planting and maintaining a garden.

His challenge is a legit one to consider. We recently had a freak snow storm in October and some people lost electricity for a number of days as the maintenance crews cleaned the debris and slowly rehooked the transmission lines. Well by the reaction you would've think Armegeddon had arrived .

So yeah... they were rouging it at the NYC encampment... especially after someone else cooked free food for them ;and someone set up a wifi zone throughout the park.

[TUT317]

Where his point is valid is that the protesters are completely detached from what it takes to get food in their mouths and ipods in their hands. They just expect to get things they feel entitled to.

I don't know about anyone else, but I am as well. I am completely at the mercy of corporations. I rely on them for just about everything.

I see it in the public hearings I attend. We want the electicity uninterupted but don't build a power plant near my house. We want cell phone service but that tower is unsightly ,build it somewhere else.
We like out food prepackaged but are grossed out at the inherent conditions of a slaughter factory that mass produces the food we eat..... and fewer do their own hunting and field dressing ;fishing ,or even getting their fingers dirty planting and maintaining a garden.

Of course, we all want electricity but we don't want the high voltage power lines to pass over our house.

If they want to do build high voltage towers over my property then I will take the government to the highest court in the land (in this case the government owns the utility). I guess that's what people do if they feel their health and interests are threatened.

What I don't want from government is a 16th century letter explaining to me that electricity benefits the majority of citizens and I need to waver my so called rights in order to benefit the majority and thus benefiting myself at the same time.

To Keep the hypothetical going;the letter might go on to say that electricity has to be provided so there is a price everyone has to pay in terms of what you want and don't want. If you don't like high voltage power lines over your house then try generating the electricity yourself. You will soon come back to the fold and allow the government/corporation to decided the most efficient way to provide for the majority.

I would prefer a letter stating that my complaint has been taken into account and it is the belief that the utility has adhered to all the necessary rules and regulations regarding the necessary extension of power in your area. If you feel that this response is unsatisfactory for what ever reason then may we suggest you start with the government Ombudsman as the first stop in exercising your rights.

Yes, I know rules and regulations. I know my rights, so I am going to exercise them to the max. Everyone doing this will no doubt result in more rules and regulations in the long run.

Nonetheless, I still prefer 21st century social contract theory over 16 th century social contract theory. Of course I am indebted to corporations for everything. However, this doesn't mean that I should waver my rights as a sign of appreciation.

Tut

[talaniman]

I expect my government to work for me, not the corporation. I expect my government to be vigilant against corporate greed and ROBBING me blind.

[smoothy]

How about the wefare bums and project dwellers that are robbing us blind, committing crimes and providing NOTHING to the general welfare of the country.

[talaniman]

They will never steal as much as a corporation does, or the fat cats who run them. At least poor criminals go to jail, rich criminals go yachting.