[QLP]

Actually I think the ugly discrimination discussion is quite timely in terms of how society is changing.

After years of stick-thin models, and air-brushed magazine covers, a back-lash is spreading, albeit slowly and subtly, throughout society against the glorification of (generally enhanced) beauty at the expense of other personal attributes.

How refreshing that 'Ugly Betty' wasn't given a makeover to fit in.
How lovely to see TV shows where the spectacle-wearing geek is the hero of the show not the punchline, and I am increasingly seeing more of these.
Those commercials featuring, 'real women' for body moisturisers. Fashion adverts featuring the middle aged.
Is all this happening elsewhere in the world? Pop singers who don't look the 'part.' Would even Susan Boyle have been given a chance a decade or two back?

Although the change is slow, and these things are still in the minority, and plastic surgery is far from waning in popularity, I see things I didn't a decade ago.

Even with body enhancements, look at the people who have alternative surgery to give themselves multiple piercings, snake tongues, full body tatooes, rather than subscribe to the 'normal beauty' ideal.

The small challenges to the values of society do effect change eventually. Otherwise the fashions and mores of society would remain static; History tells us not. Again, I say, hearts and minds.

[speechlesstx]

Nice thoughts QLP, but the remaining issue on the thought of affirmative action for ugly people is who decides the beauty of a person? And can you imagine someone with self-esteem issues already standing before some committee to determine if they're ugly or not?

I think of the NFL's rule that a team must interview minority candidates for coaching positions. Why would anyone want to be interviewed, much less hired because of the color of their skin? Who wants to be the token?

[QLP]

I think we're actually on the same page speechless, I'm not promoting affirmative action, but change of mindset to overcome this.

We all find certain things intrinsically attractive or otherwise. To some extent this is a personal thing; very much in the eye of the beholder.

Nevertheless, societal constructs do affect us on levels we are hardly aware of. We have only to look at art through the ages to see that different ideals of beauty have been held up at different times. Would a lady from a Reubens or Renoir cut the mustard as a poster girl today?

Maybe we are actually ready to question whether physical attractiveness is such a strong measure of worth, or self worth, as it has been held to be.

[smoothy]

I think we're actually on the same page speechless, I'm not promoting affirmative action, but change of mindset to overcome this.

We all find certain things intrinsically attractive or otherwise. To some extent this is a personal thing; very much in the eye of the beholder.

Nevertheless, societal constructs do affect us on levels we are hardly aware of. We have only to look at art through the ages to see that different ideals of beauty have been held up at different times. Would a lady from a Reubens or Renoir cut the mustard as a poster girl today?

Maybe we are actually ready to question whether physical attractiveness is such a strong measure of worth, or self worth, as it has been held to be.

How about affirmative action for short people in the NBA, for 110 lb weaklings in the NFL, Blind brain surgeons, sociopaths on the State Police force... oh, we have that one already... :D

[paraclete]

Ugly, as in the OP???? I never took that serious.

excon

Well of course not Ex because ugly is hard to define. We can define beauty far more easily than we can define ugly. Without being racist I find some races ugly in facial appearamce, ugly in physical appearance and I certainly find certain attitudes and cultural things ugly