[excon]

Hello again,

Update:::: I think the president is LOSING...

excon

[tomder55]

Yup... and if the Balanced Budget Amendment is holding a deal up the Repubics should drop it for now . I think it's a bridge too far anyway.
They can shelve it for some future battle and the Dems can shelve tax reform for now... then what is left is budget cuts in exchange for a debt ceiling increase.

[tomder55]

Then they should scrap the idea of a debt ceiling... it is a terrible idea.

[excon]

....then what is left is budget cuts in exchange for a debt ceiling increase.

Hello again, tom:

Bizarrely so, you've HIT the Republican talking points on the noggin. The right wing gives the president HIS debt limit increase, and in exchange they get THEIR budget cuts...

Only, the debt ceiling increase ISN'T Obama's.. It's the country's. But, YOUR spin is winning. I don't know why.

excon

[tomder55]

Then the President and his butt buddies at AARP owe America's Seniors an apology for repeatedly lying to them that their SS checks were at risk.

[paraclete]

yup .....and if the Balanced Budget Amendment is holding a deal up the Repubics should drop it for now . I think it's a bridge too far anyway.
They can shelve it for some future battle and the Dems can shelve tax reform for now ....then what is left is budget cuts in exchange for a debt ceiling increase.

So republicans win then?

[excon]

so republicans win then?

Hello again, clete:

It AIN'T over. It's about the 8th round, and Obama just suffered a severe body blow. He's outpointing the Tea Party so far, but that won't matter if he's knocked out.

excon

[tomder55]

This isn't a win thing. The whole group of them have been acting like they are in an elementary school playground.

But if there is a win thing here it is.. This crowd in the WH have been ideologically rigid in their belief in Keynesian economics. This debate has forced them to face the facts that the country is financially in over it's head.

[excon]

This debate has forced them to face the facts that the country is financially in over it's head.

Hello again, tom and clete:

The debate is FRAMED in such a way as to portray Obama as a spender. That argument is WINNING, although I don't know why. Clearly, he's arguing about how much to CUT - NOT how much to spend... So, he's joined the ranks of the right wing...

If he TRULY was a Keynesian, he WOULD be arguing about SPENDING now to bring us out of the recession.. He ISN'T.

excon

[tomder55]

This debate forced him to change his meme . If there is a win in that it is indeed the country's .
All the Obama supporters should look at that on the bright side. Clintoon faced similar situations after the mid-term elections that brought in the Gingrich crowd .He triangulated . That won him the 1996 election.

[Wondergirl]

their SS checks were at risk.

That's MY money.

[tomder55]

And it never was at risk EVER (except for the fact that your money does not physically exist in the trust fund... but that Ponzi Scheme we've explored before) .

There was ZERO chance he would withhold SS checks and he knows it.

He could pay out the entire amt. in the SS trust fund and it would have no affect on the debt ceiling .

Why ? Because the so called bonds the gvt buys when they invest the trust fund are not real bonds... they are IOUs . (yeah that's right ,they plunder the fund for the general revenue ;cut IOUs and call them "treasuries " .)

When they cut a check they retire some IOU .
To finance the benefit, they issue a real bond and sell it to investors in the credit market. But since the IOU the government wrote to itself counts just as much as the real bond sold to investors, as far as the debt ceiling is concerned, total government debt is unchanged according to the accountants.

The only thing going past the deadline threatens is the possibility of a Government shut down. It doesn't affect SS checks and it doesn't affect debt service.
We have has government shutdowns before and the world didn't end and our economy did not come crashing down.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...inion_newsreel

[talaniman]

How Much Obama Has Really Spent | Story | POWERWALL

Repubs all repeat the same chant, spending is the problem, to promote their agenda of a smaller government, and a reason to cut programs that people depend on. Anything to do with helping people is Communist, Socialist, Marxist, blah, blah blah.

How does reduced revenues, thanks to joblessness, from recession caused by overspending by the rich (greed, and flat out robbery) equate to rewarding bad behavior with more tax cuts for those that robbed us? It doesn't.

How does cutting programs for victims (the middle class and the poor), equate to not making the rich pay for their greed, and mismanagement? It doesn't!!

Okay Tom, this is your chance, How would you create the jobs so people wouldn't have to rely on the nanny state??

What would you do if they came for your job, like they did mine???

[excon]

Hello again:

Still NO deal... Now, the house Republicans are saying, "Don't worry. Be happy. Sure, our pristine credit rating is gonna get downgraded, but it's NOT default."

Don't interest rates go up when we're downgraded?? I think so. If downgraded means it's going to COST me money, it doesn't make me happy. You?

So, WHO you going to blame for it? Republicans are banking it's Obama. But, humans KNOW who it is.

excon

PS> (edited) Watching FOX.. They're NOW saying, we're being downgraded, NOT because we can't reach a deal, but, because we have so much massive debt...

But, we HAD the massive debt a couple weeks ago didn't we??

Yup. Humans know who's doing it to us.

[tomder55]

I think there will be a downgrade anyway because of the size of the debt ;NOT that Congress won't raise it.
I think interest rates are artificially too low due the Fed easing. How would a 1% rate hurt you ? You can't borrow money anyway because the lenders think their best investment is to sit on liquidity .Perhaps if they could lend the money at a decent rate of return they'd rethink that strategery .

[tomder55]

By the way . The Treasury has "found "enough money to extend the deadline... how convenient!!

[excon]

How would a 1% rate hurt you ?

Hello again, tom:

You guys are playing with fire... You THINK it'll just be a teeny weeny rate hike, and how can that hurt anyway? But, once you let it get away from you, you have no control over the downward spiral that can take off...

Shame, shame, shame on you...

excon

[tomder55]

By the way... Reid's new budget plan has no new revenues... how is that possible ? I thought the Dems were insistent that tax increases were needed.

[excon]

Reid's new budget plan has no new revenues .....how is that possible ? I thought the Dems were insistent that tax increases were needed.

Hello again, tom:

They are... But, in the name of SAVING THE COUNTRY, the Democrats ARE willing to compromise, whereas the right wing is not. Ain't no more difficult than that.

excon

[tomder55]

Hello again, tom:

You guys are playing with fire... You THINK it'll just be a teeny weeny rate hike, and how can that hurt anyway?? But, once you let it get away from you, you have no control over the downward spiral that can take off...

Shame, shame, shame on you....

excon

Wouldn't you like a decent return on your CDs again ?

The fallacy was that holding rates down would NOT cause inflation. The Feds low rates created a phony stock market bubble AND a phony commodities bubble . I thought you were against all the "fat cats " making money in the stock market .