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mrsn1092 · Jun 13, 2011, 05:24 PM

I've lived in my home for 1 1/2 yrs. Water pressures always been great. For past week or so pressure is about 1/2 the norm. went to cellar and at tank there was a gauge that kept going from 20 psi to 60 psi then clicking off with a spark. It was happening continually. What could be the problem and how do I fix it?

ballengerb1 · Jun 13, 2011, 05:39 PM

Where is the spark? Where is you pump?

mrsn1092 · Jun 13, 2011, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by mrsn1092

I've lived in my home for 1 1/2 yrs. water pressures always been great. for past week or so pressure is about 1/2 the norm. went to cellar and at tank there was a gauge that kept going from 20 psi to 60 psi then clicking off with a spark. it was happening continually. what could be the problem and how do i fix it?

The spark is at the wire connection near the tank, wires are connected to screws. Pump is outside at well.

mrsn1092 · Jun 13, 2011, 06:18 PM

[QUOTE=ballengerb1;2823652]Where is the spark? Where is you pump?[/QUOT it is at the wires connecting to 4 screw on a plate near the tank. The pump is at the well outside

hkstroud · Jun 13, 2011, 08:20 PM

Where is the spark?

is at the wires connecting to 4 screw on a plate near the tank.

That sounds like you pump pressure switch. Sounds like the cover is missing. You would see a spark when the pump shuts off if there is no cover. Need to find cover and put it on.

Also sounds like your pump is turning on and off rapidly because your tank is water logged.

Assuming that your tank has a valve on top that looks like the valve on automobile tire, press the needle in that valve. If you get air out the tank should be OK. If you get water, the tank bladder has ruputred. Tank will have to be replaced.

mrsn1092 · Jun 14, 2011, 04:46 AM

Originally Posted by hkstroud

That sounds like you pump pressure switch. Sounds like the cover is missing. You would see a spark when the pump shuts off if there is no cover. Need to find cover and put it on.

Also sounds like your pump is turning on and off rapidly because your tank is water logged.

Assuming that your tank has a valve on top that looks like the valve on automobile tire, press the needle in that valve. If you get air out the tank should be OK. If you get water, the tank bladder has ruputred. Tank will have to be replaced.

Air came out when I pressed valve. So far so good. Could the valve be faulty or could the tank need more air?

hkstroud · Jun 14, 2011, 05:24 AM

could the valve be faulty

No.

could the tank need more air?

Maybe but not likely.

Is your pump above ground or down in the well?
Do you have a valve on the pipe coming fron the well before it connects to the tank?
If so, temporarily turn it off and see what happens.

Can you show us a picture of the tank, the piping and the switch?

Edit; I should have ask,
"Does the pressure go up and down when no water is being used or does it only happen when water is being used?"

mrsn1092 · Jun 14, 2011, 07:01 AM

Originally Posted by hkstroud

No.

Maybe but not likely.

Is your pump above ground or down in the well?
Do you have a valve on the pipe coming fron the well before it connects to the tank?
If so, temporarily turn it off and see what happens.

Can you show us a picture of the tank, the piping and the switch?

Edit; I should have ask,
"Does the pressure go up and down when no water is being used or does it only happen when water is being used?"

The pressure goes up and down without water being used. Don't see a valve on pipe coming from well

jlisenbe · Jun 14, 2011, 01:54 PM

If the pump is cycling when no water is being used, then you have a leak somewhere. The question is, in which direction. Most of the time, with the tank in your basement, you would probably notice a leak in a pipe in the house. It could be a leaking toilet flapper valve, but that would tend to be a slow leak. You could also have a leaking checkvalve or footvalve in your well. That's why HK wanted you to shut off the water coming from the well. If you can do that, and the problem goes away, then you know that the problem is in the well.

hkstroud · Jun 14, 2011, 02:48 PM

I can't see the pictures, can anyone else?

Really want to see the pressure switch set up.

mrsn1092 · Jun 14, 2011, 02:56 PM

They didn't show up on this end but if you right-click and either open in new tab or in new window it will show them

mrsn1092 · Jun 14, 2011, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by mrsn1092

they didnt show up on this end but if you right-click and either open in new tab or in new window it will show them

All I could do was shut off breaker to pump. The water stopped completely

jlisenbe · Jun 15, 2011, 06:10 AM

Mr, if I was in your shoes, I'd watch the pressure gauge for a few minutes after the pump cuts off. How fast is the pressure falling? If it goes down rather quickly, in just a matter of a few seconds, then I'm thinking checkvalve/footvalve. If it goes down fairly slowly, taking a couple of minutes or longer, then I would tend to look first for leaks in the house.

As I have said, it could be a leak in the well pipe or checkvalve/footvalve. There might be a checkvalve visible above ground. If so, then I'm replacing that first because it is not too difficult to do. If that doesn't do it, then it's footvalve time or even a major leak in the wellpipe. That involves pulling the wellpipe up. Not easy to do, so you might want to call in a pro.

BTW, I'm assuming your pump is above ground. Correct?

hkstroud · Jun 15, 2011, 12:17 PM

Mrsn1092

Click on HELP (upper right corner of screen)

Look under
"Additional features used with posting questions and answers"

Click on
"How do I add pictures and other file types to my post?"

Try posting pictures again.

mrsn1092 · Jun 15, 2011, 01:13 PM

Here's another attempt at the pics. Hope it works, and thanks for all the help. Also my son & I just went to flush the radiator in the car(yes car problems to) and the hose water stopped 3 times during the process. I went in the house to check that water. I ran the tub water and it came out in bursts sounding like there was air in the lines. My son is doping the dishes now and says the pressure keeps going up and down.

mrsn1092 · Jun 15, 2011, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by mrsn1092

here's another attempt at the pics. Hope it works, and thanks for all the help. Also my son & i just went to flush the radiator in the car(yes car problems to) and the hose water stopped 3 times during the process. I went in the house to check that water. I ran the tub water and it came out in bursts sounding like there was air in the lines. My son is doping the dishes now and says the pressure keeps going up and down.

Top pic is outside at well. The 2 others are in the basement. Wet spot on floor is because I opened valve to see if it was working

jlisenbe · Jun 15, 2011, 01:32 PM

Mr, it all comes down to this. If your system pressure keeps going up and down when no water is being used, then you have a leak somewhere. If it seems to go up and down rapidly, and especially if you can hear water rushing back through the pipe to the well, then it is a bad checkvalve. The CV's purpose is simple. When the pump (yours, by the way, is in your well) turns off, the water would simply leave the pressure tank and run back down into the well except for the CV. It is a one way valve that prevents that. If it is defective, it does not close and water simply runs from the tank back into the well. So the pump cuts back on the refill the tank, but once the pump cuts off, the water runs back into the well. The pump cuts back on to pump water back into the tank, but when it cuts off... well, you get the picture.

So if the pump is cycling on and off when no water is being used, that typically points to a faulty checkvalve. BTW, that could also explain the air. If enough water exits before the pump cuts back on, then some air could fill the wellpipe and get pumped into the pressure tank. A large leak in the wellpipe could also be possible, but your well looks relatively new so that would be unlikely.

I could not spot a checkvalve in your pics, so it is no doubt in the well. But you can install one above ground. They are fairly cheap (20 bucks or so) and not difficult to install.

Again, the key here is that pressure is dropping rapidly when no water is being used.

mrsn1092 · Jun 15, 2011, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

mr, it all comes down to this. If your system pressure keeps going up and down when no water is being used, then you have a leak somewhere. If it seems to go up and down rapidly, and especially if you can hear water rushing back through the pipe to the well, then it is a bad checkvalve. The CV's purpose is simple. When the pump (yours, by the way, is in your well) turns off, the water would simply leave the pressure tank and run back down into the well except for the CV. It is a one way valve that prevents that. If it is defective, it does not close and water simply runs from the tank back into the well. So the pump cuts back on the refill the tank, but once the pump cuts off, the water runs back into the well. The pump cuts back on to pump water back into the tank, but when it cuts off...well, you get the picture.

So if the pump is cycling on and off when no water is being used, that typically points to a faulty checkvalve. BTW, that could also explain the air. If enough water exits before the pump cuts back on, then some air could fill the wellpipe and get pumped into the pressure tank. A large leak in the wellpipe could also be possible, but your well looks relatively new so that would be unlikely.

I could not spot a checkvalve in your pics, so it is no doubt in the well. But you can install one above ground. They are fairly cheap (20 bucks or so) and not difficult to install.

Again, the key here is that pressure is dropping rapidly when no water is being used.

So does the checkvalve need to be connect to the pipe at the well or can it be put in the house? And does the old one need to be removed?

jlisenbe · Jun 15, 2011, 07:25 PM

The old one can stay in place unless you have located one above ground. The new one can be installed above ground at the wellhead. Be aware that the second valve can sometimes cause problems, but it's such an inexpensive and easy solution that I would want to try it. This site has some more information on the subject. You will note their warnings about a second valve. Other sites actually recommend two or more checkvalves, depending on the depth of the well. I've also included a second site which is a CV supplier.

There is, of course, always the option of pulling the wellpipe and pump up. But that generally is a job for a pro and can cost several hundred dollars.

Water system check valve location & purpose - private pump and well system do-it-yourself repairs

Brass check valves keep the water supply line full of water at all times, eliminating air in lines.

hkstroud · Jun 15, 2011, 08:16 PM

I agree with every thing that jlinsenbe has said. I agree that everything points to a leaking check valve. I agree that a leaking check valve would put air in the tank. Furthermore, a leak on the house side of the tank would have to be so great that surely you to be aware of it. However, a pulsating flow at the kitchen sink doesn't fit a leaking check valve. Nor does the water flow stopping with a hose valve open.

Normally getting air out of the Schrader valve on the tank indicates that the tank bladder is OK. However, it is possible that the bladder has ruptured but there is still a little air in the tank between the bladder and the tank but essentially the tank is water logged..

Suggest the following just to make sure the bladder is OK. It doesn't cost any thing and its easy to do.

Turn off breaker to well.
Connect hose to one of the hose bibs at the tank.
Open a faucet somewhere.
Open hose bib at tank and drain tank.
Assuming that your pump switch is a 40/60 switch, your pressure gauge should read about 38 pounds when the tank is completely drained.

If pressure is anything substantially less than 38, pressurize to 38 pounds, close faucet and drain valve and turn breakers on. If pump cycles continues to cycle rapidly I think you will have pretty much confirmed that you have a leaking check valve. If pump cycles normally you have a ruptured bladder and a water-logged tank.

Pressurize with drain valve open. If tank will not pressurize and hold 38 pounds of air pressure you have a ruptured bladder.