[danaleigh]

I have a 3.5 year old who will not go to bed before 10:30 (and that's early for him!)
He can run around swim go to the amusement park all day, go on a 4 mile hike, and still won't go to bed at a regular time (8 would be amazing!) he doesn't nap anymore and he is very active, he only drinks water no pop or caffeine with in about 5 hrs of bed if at all, even when we wake up at 5 to go to work its still 10:30 bedtime.
I just want some quiet down time. Maybe he is just nocturnal like he says he is...

[tickle]

Maybe he is just nocturnal like he says he is....

How can he 'say' he is nocturnal; he was obviously told he is. Sounds pretty hyperactive if he goes through that much activity and doesn't sleep at night. Yes you do need a rest. Time for a doctor's visit to get this little guy sorted out and find out why he is hyperactive. No he isn't nocturnal, there is something wrong, or you never set your standards and got him, from the very start, on a regular sleep schedule and stuck to it no matter what he did. Are there other children?

Tick

[J_9]

He's hyperactive because he doesn't have down time.

Many children react oppositely than we adults do with stress and activity.

Rather than get tired, they gear up. My 9 year old is still the same way. They don't "shut down" like we adults do. My mother used to call it "getting your second wind." Which basically means that you got past the point of being tired, but you are so tired now that you can't relax.

What kind of structure do you have in your home? Is there a bedtime routine?

Maybe he is just nocturnal like he says he is

I am also curious how a three and a half year old knows what nocturnal is, and understands the concept.

Sounds to me like he might be a little overly stimulated.

Structure... routine, etc.

[dontknownuthin]

A few suggestions...
Get him up no later than 8 am, and have him dressed, fed, his bed made (he can help) and teeth brushed within the first hour he's up. You should be dressed and showered before he gets up and you can even teach him to stay in bed until you tell him it's OK to get up, permitting him to get up to go the bathroom as needed if he quietly goes right back to bed.

Dial his bedtime back 15 minutes every two nights until he's reliably going to bed by 8 pm.

Have set meal times - dinner by 6 if you can swing it.

Use "first and then". Tell him what you are doing now, and what you are doing next so he knows what's going to happen and is less likely to challenge it. For example, after he's bathed and in his pajamas, tell him, "first, you can play for 40 minutes, then it's time to get ready for bed".

Have him on a schedule and set limits on activities that children cannot limit themselves. For a child his age, seriously a half hour of television a day is plenty. In school, an hour is more than enough, perhaps allowing a movie on Friday night. He does not need to be on a computer at all, but my son had screen time - if he used a computer, it was instead of television, not in addition.

Make sure that he has some downtime every day so he learns to entertain himself.

Have a bedtime routine - bath, a certain number of children's stories or chapters (make it reasonable and tell him how many, then stick to it - we did two story books, or when he was ready for chapter books, one chapter). Include all the excuses for getting up in your routine so it's done - small sip of water, brush teeth, go potty, say goodnight to everyone, get his toy he sleeps with and so on - anything he wants to do at bedtime has to wait until the next day. Stick to it.

If he gets up, quietly and calmly put him back in bed. Do not make it fun or funny, don't loose your temper or yell, don't discuss or explain or remind or lecture - the firsts time or two you can say, "it's bed time" and put him in bed, but no additional hugs or kisses - that's already been done the firs time you put him in bed. If he asks, say, "that's all done, lay down and close your eyes". The third time and thereafter, don't say anything more. Just put him in the bed and leave the room. You might have to do this a hundred times the first few nights and have to stick to it and keep your cool - it will pay off and after a few nightmare evenings, he'll reliably go to bed when he's told because he can't get a reaction, start game or change the rule.

When he is compliant, give him a nice reward for his good behavior and tell him that you expect he will continue to do as he's asked from then on with bedtime. Continue to praise him for doing a good job, but you don't have to continue the rewards. A reward should be cheap and something that doesn't cost much if anything - for example, it can be a cheap rub-on tattoo on his arm, or a surprise trip to the playground for a half hour, or an extra story the next night. You could even make it so that he gets an extra story every night if he's gone to bed on time the first night and just make it such that the extra is within the reasonable number to start with - like a second story whereas he always gets one.

The evenings will be a nice time for you to relax with your spouse or by yourself - you can watch what you want without worrying about it being appropriate, and get some things done if you like. It will make it a lot easier for you to then start your next day at a healthy hour and some organization.