[Donna Mae II]

"And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, ...Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judea, and all the region round about Jordan, and were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins...I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire...Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him."
Matthew 4: 6-13

"...Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said to Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost...

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: And the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls."
Acts 2:37-38;41

"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Whosoever cometh to me and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will show you to whom he is like: He is like a man who built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon the house and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth , and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great."
Luke6: 46-49

We know we are saved if we do the will of our Father. Not just hearers of His word, but doers of His word.

[arcura]

Donna Mae II ,
That was very good advice and straight from Holy Scripture.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[HeadStrongBoy]

The concept of salvation (and / or forgiveness) simply for the asking is NOT TRUE. We would like it to be true. But that does not make it so. Now it is true that there are verses in the Bible, especially the New Testament that seem CRYSTAL CLEAR. And if we read ONLY those verses, and not a lot of other stuff that the Bible also says, then YES we can CONVINCE OURSELVES that salvation is to be had JUST FOR THE ASKING.

But the Bible also tells about STRONG DELUSION that God will send. People thinking that they are saved, but actually are NOT. Talk about horrors!

[HeadStrongBoy]

Donna Mae ||

He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire...

I would like to point out that in the above quote, God is teaching us that water baptism does not save at all. Rather it is the baptism with the Holy Ghost and with fire that actually does the saving. Fire being a metaphor for God himself. See Hebrews 12:29.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: And the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." Acts 2:37-38;41

In the next quote above, I'd like to point out that the text does not specify water baptism at all. And we've already learned that water baptism does not save. So those about three thousand souls who were added (saved) must have received The Holy Spirit from God Himself.

[classyT]

The concept of salvation (and / or forgiveness) simply for the asking is NOT TRUE. We would like it to be true. But that does not make it so. Now it is true that there are verses in the Bible, especially the New Testament that seem CRYSTAL CLEAR. And if we read ONLY those verses, and not a lot of other stuff that the Bible also says, then YES we can CONVINCE OURSELVES that salvation is to be had JUST FOR THE ASKING.

But the Bible also tells about STRONG DELUSION that God will send. People thinking that they are saved, but actually are NOT. Talk about horrors !!

DUDE! Lay off the koolaid...

The bible says what it means and it means what it says. PUT the verses in context. The NT tells us exactly how to be saved and there is no strings attached or hidden meanings or left out versions. The only horror I could see it wanting to be saved, asking to be saved, believing to be saved, trusting in the blood of Christ, only to find out... I wasn't hand picked and I am still responsible before God. Your theology is a doctrine of demons and goofy demons at that. Just saying... ::D

[HeadStrongBoy]

ClassyT

The bible says what it means and it means what it says. PUT the verses in context. The NT...

You're simply indicating that you're NOT looking at the whole Bible. You're favoring the so-called New Testament. The complete Bible is one testament, one law book. The so-called New testament is simply an addendum to what is commonly called the Old Testament. But actually there is only one complete "testament." And favoring one over the other results in complete perversion and misunderstanding of God's plan.

[450donn]

So you claim to adhere to the entire Bible? How many animals do you sacrifice each week? Get real HSB The old testament was fulfilled with the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross nearly two thousand years ago. All of the OT was fulfilled then. If you still believe that you fall under the law them you MUST adhere to all 700+ laws of the OT. Personally I am so glad I fall under grace. I know full well that I am saved by GRACE. It is so because it is written in the Bible and I believe what the Bible says.

[HeadStrongBoy]

450donn said:

sacrifice of Jesus on the cross nearly two thousand years ago. All of the OT was fulfilled then.

That statement is approximately what most of the Christian churches believe and teach. But, not only is it a gross oversimplification, it is also grossly untrue. There are many details that need to be correctly sorted out to get an accurate view of how salvation has always worked. However it has only recently become possible to have a more correct understanding of God's entire plan from A through Z.

And here is an interesting aside. It is not necessary to understand every detail from A through Z in order to get saved. However God saves those who are humble. Not the proud. And those who are truly humble before God's word will at least want to learn as much as humanly possible.

[classyT]

Headstrong,

I am not favoring the NT. I am rightly dividing the word of God as Paul instructed. I put my bible into context. Because God is NOT the author of confusion!! He doesn't tell us ( the church) directly how to be saved and then take it back.. or have a hidden agenda. Let God be true and every man a liar.

Give me a break Headstrong with God saving the humble.. blah blah blah. YOUR so called god saves who he wants to.. according to your screwy doctrine of demons. You haven't a clue if YOU are even saved! Well, good luck with all THAT!

Incidentally, if your god is going by nice, kind, understanding, and humble.. trust me darlin.. you ain't going to be there. Sorry babe, calls them like I sees them.

Fortunately the true GOD of the Bible is saving all those who have called on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and his finished work on the cross. So even the hard headed can come and be saved... that's how good my Jesus is.

One last thought, why would you attempt to answer this question anyway? You haven't a clue how to be saved! Not a clue!. you reject good sound bible verses because you aren't smart enough put the OT into context. Is it good that you call yourself a headstrongboy. Being headstrong is NOT a good thing.. neither is it considered HUMBLE. So where does this leave you? I will tell you, proud and in limbo, never knowing for sure if you are in Christ. What you have to offer is N O T H I N G. You can't give something away you don't have.

[450donn]

450donn said:

That statement is approximately what most of the Christian churches believe and teach. But, not only is it a gross oversimplification, it is also grossly untrue. There are many details that need to be correctly sorted out to get an accurate view of how salvation has always worked. However it has only recently become possible to have a more correct understanding of God's entire plan from A through Z.

And here is an interesting aside. It is not necessary to understand every detail from A through Z in order to get saved. However God saves those who are humble. Not the proud. And those who are truly humble before God's word will at least want to learn as much as humanly possible.

It is painfully obvious that you do not believe in the Bible. So why are you posting here?

[HeadStrongBoy]

ClassyT

Give me a break Headstrong

Maybe you should give yourself a break. I mean take some personal time out from this if you can't handle the pressure.

The rules of this site make it clear that the first order of business is to service the questions of askers. Not personal and miscellaneous conversation with fellow members.

[classyT]

Headstrong,

Pressure of what? Pressure from who? Please... don't flatter yourself.

Oops,you have broken the rules then, because I have seen miscellaneous and personal info in your posts... tsk tsk.

Back to the question at hand:

Paul wrote in Romans 8:16

The spirit bears withness with our spirit that we are the children of God.

We can know that we are the Lord's.

[HeadStrongBoy]

Headstrong, Pressure of what? Pressure from who? Please... don't flatter yourself.

Doesn't the New Testament say that women should keep silence in the churches ?

The business of sharing the gospel is not for the faint of heart.

[classyT]

Headstong.

Ha ha ha ha ha! I enjoyed that... sounds like maybe you should get out if you can't take the pressure...

[HeadStrongBoy]

There is an important point I'd like to address in reference to the askers question.

Perhaps some people assume that only someone who is saved can help another person find truth in the Bible. Not so. An example is King Solomon. We read in the Bible that at the end of his life his heart was turned away from YHWH, and he worshipped many other false gods. Nevertheless, earlier on he had written the books of Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and The Song of Songs. All given to him, word for word, by God personally.

So it is very clear, from the Bible itself, that an unsaved person is able to understand many important spiritual things in relation to the gospel of Christ. And yet NOT BE SAVED THEMSELVES.

[450donn]

There is an important point I'd like to address in reference to the askers question.

Perhaps some people assume that only someone who is saved can help another person find truth in the Bible. Not so. An example is King Solomon. We read in the Bible that at the end of his life his heart was turned away from YHWH, and he worshipped many other false gods. Nevertheless, earlier on he had written the books of Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and The Song of Songs. All given to him, word for word, by God personally.

So it is very clear, from the Bible itself, that an unsaved person is able to understand many important spiritual things in relation to the gospel of Christ. And yet NOT BE SAVED THEMSELVES.

HUH??
Solomon was indeed saved during the time he wrote the books at the minimum. How do you know he is not sitting in heaven alongside Moses, Aaron, David and all the rest. David was another man who failed miserably during his lifetime. It is up to God to determine if these men make it or not, not your wild eyed assessments based on your insane interpretation of the Bible.

[classyT]

Well HB,

I disagree about Solomon, but that shouldn't surprise anyone. I believe he IS in heaven. I believe he was the Lord's.

The Lord can use anyone at anytime for his purposes and so I suppose he can use an unsaved person. I don't think an unsaved person has any real spirtual depth. The Bible calls the unbeliever spirtually dead. Sorry pal, wrong AGAIN. Bummer

[HeadStrongBoy]

classyT said: The Bible calls the unbeliever spirtually dead.

I agree. That is true 100%. Nevertheless I was referring to King Solomon, a very special case, NOT to myself.

Another interesting point is that knowledge and some kinds of wisdom are not the monopoly of saved people only. The fact is that there are many intelligent and even wise people on Earth today. And there is nothing stopping them from acquiring knowledge of God's word. True the unsaved are spiritually dead 100%. But they are not necessarily stupid or ignorant. And the knowledge they possess can include some spiritual knowledge. My point is that knowledge by itself does not make anyone saved. A baby can become saved. How much does a baby know about God or anything for that matter ?

P.S. Believe as you like. But the Bible indicates that "He that endureth to the end shall be saved." And 1 Kings 11:9 tells us that "YHWH was angry with Solomon because HIS HEART WAS TURNED from YHWH."

[njab1]

The Bible says that it is God’s will that “all sorts of men should be saved.” (1 Timothy 2:3, 4) Salvation is thus available to all who will accept it. But just what does it mean to be saved? Is it really something that simply happens to you with little or no effort on your part?
The word “salvation” means “deliverance from danger or destruction.” True salvation thus involves more than a serene mental state. It means being saved from the destruction of this present wicked system of things and finally from death itself! But just who is it that God will save?
Regarding worship, Jesus told a Samaritan woman “Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him.”—John 4:22, 23.
What about the religious leaders of Jesus' day? About them he said "You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.’”—Matthew 15:7-9, New International Version.
What about the many religious groups today that claim to believe in Christ? Would Jesus endorse them all as legitimate ways to gain salvation? We do not have to guess in this regard, for Jesus clearly said: “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness.”—Matthew 7:21-23.
These words of Jesus have sobering implications. They indicate that many devout people are failing to ‘do the will of the Father.’ How, then, can one gain true salvation? First Timothy 2:3, 4 answers: “[God’s] will is that all sorts of men should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth.” But Salvation involves more than simply acquiring information. In a responsive heart, accurate knowledge of God produces faith. (Romans 10:10, 17; Hebrews 11:6) Such faith moves one to action. For example, the Bible admonishes: “Repent, therefore, and turn around so as to get your sins blotted out, that seasons of refreshing may come from the person of Jehovah.”—Acts 3:19.
Yes, salvation also involves conforming oneself to God’s standards of conduct and morality. Under the transforming influence of God’s Word, lifelong habits of lying and deception give way to honesty and truthfulness. (Titus 2:10) Immoral practices, such as homosexuality, adultery, and fornication, are abandoned and replaced by chaste moral conduct. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11) This is not a temporary abstinence based on emotion but a permanent change resulting from careful study and application of God’s Word.—Ephesians 4:22-24.
In time, love and appreciation for God moves an honesthearted person to make a full dedication to God and to symbolize it by water baptism. (Matthew 28:19, 20; Romans 12:1) Baptized Christians are saved in the eyes of God. (1 Peter 3:21) During the coming destruction of this wicked world, God will save them completely by preserving them through that tribulation.—Revelation 7:9, 14.

[HeadStrongBoy]

The plain fact is that accepting Jesus, being baptized in water, and becoming a church member is all religious hocus pocus. And none of that can get anyone saved.

The true gospel in our time is that Judgment Day will begin May 21, 2011. We need to believe the warning as the people of Nineveh believed the prophet Jonah. We need to humble ourselves before God, and we need to beg for His mercy. It MAY BE that He will spare us.