[KmmCA]

My boyfriend and I have been dating for 3 years but have been close for more than 5. We've always had a really great relationship and we are completely faithful to each other. I've always known that he looks at porn, but recently I've become more upset by this. We have a pretty good sexual relationship... but recently I've had a lot more sex drive than he has, and I'm not necessarily satisfied. I wouldn't have a problem with not being satisfied, but when my boyfriend looks at porn it doesn't help our sexual relationship. I've brought it up to him before and he understood where I was coming from being uncomfortable with it and told me he would stop, and please me more. Well just within the last two days, we've had really. Really. Great sex. But when I looked on his phone to see if he was keeping his promise, and he wasn't. When we talked about it, he told me he retracted his promise and didn't see at all how porn would affect our relationship. I find porn to be degrading to women in relationships... I'm a fairly confident woman but when I'm pretty willing to sexually satisfy my boyfriend in any way.. I don't see his need to resort to porn. After all... he has a girlfriend?

I don't know how to look at this, I'm just so confused and a few other opinions would be helpful.

[Curlyben]

Is what ?

[KmmCA]

Sorry, I hadn't posted the question right

[smoothy]

How old are you both?

[KmmCA]

I'm 23 and he's 24

[smoothy]

Would you be willing to give up Soap Operas and Chick flicks in exchange... anything that might have an attractive man in it?


Because you can't ask someone to give up anything they have a right to without making a similar sacrifice.

Because chick flicks, soap operas, and romance novels to the women's mind trigger the same mental responses porn does to mens.

If he can't look at women... you can't look at guys... any guys.

If you aren't accepting of that then YOU aren't being fair and equitible about it.

Besides Porn has NOTHING to do with you anyway... push him on it and it WILL build a wall in the relationship because he is going to harbor resentment.

[Cat1864]

It was a promise he should not have made. It was a promise you should not have accepted. When you accept a promise it has to be with trust in the person who gave it to you. You have shown you don't trust him to keep a promise by snooping. He showed poor judgment in giving a promise that he probably knew he would be able to keep.

Do you expect him to give up masturbation? He doesn't have to look at 'porn' to masturbate. A person can look at 'porn' and not masturbate. It is another outlet of entertainment and just a more explicit form erotica.

It seems to me that you are blaming porn for something that can be better described as a lack of communication. You talked to him and things got better (for a couple of days, at least) even though it turns out that he was still looking at adult oriented materials.

You have been equating porn with the lack of your being satisfied instead of talking to him about what else is going on. Did you look at stresses in his life and how tired he might be from work/school? Has he been in good health? Does he take any medications?

Masturbation with or without porn is a good way to explore your own sexuality and your body's changing needs. You can't expect someone to always be able to satisfy your needs. His needs may not be the same as yours at the moment.

There are times in relationships when a person doesn't want to worry about satisfying or being satisfied by another person. Masturbation and climax can be great stress reducers while being concerned about what your partner needs and wants can add a lot stress. It doesn't mean you don't love each other and aren't attracted to each other. It just means that you need some 'me' time.

Each person has to make his/her own decisions about porn. If you don't like porn (or rather its use in a relationship) find someone who believes the same way you do or accept that he might have a different view point than you do and see if you can reach a compromise that works for both of you.

Bottom line is to keep the lines of communication open. Talk about what you need in bed and look at the full picture. Often what limits a libido is not sex related but stress and frustration from other parts of life.

[smoothy]

Yeah... as CAT1864 said... our libidos wax and wane , sometimes we might be in sync with our partners, other times our high coincides with their low.

You talk, you learn to accept the differences when they occur.

Lots of factors can affect either of your libidos... when you've been married 20 years... you have already learned to accept them and not get upset when they happen.

[CravenMorhead]

Men are complex creatures. Simple but complex at least. It really sounds like you don't understand him at all. Since this is more of a two part question and I am feeling Verbose.

First off. Libido can be a tricky thing. If he says he is tired then chances are he is. Men tend not to lie about that part. Why is he tired? Are you approaching him at the right time of the day, i.e. when he is less likely to be tired? Are your schedules mismatched? The other questions come of course are:
Is he stressed?
Does he have any chemical/herbal dependecies?
Does he drink?
Is he not sleeping well?
Is there any other odd changes in behaviour?

Exhaustion is a completely valid reason not to have a libido.

Second. Privacy invasion. It shows lack of trust. You snooped on his phone? Bad on you. Give him space and don't snoop. You only have yourself to blame for what you find.

The third implied question. Pornography. It has been discussed a lot of times on this board. There are several things you need to accept. Men are visual creatures, we get turned on by porn. We also get turned on if a cool breeze hits a woman who isn't wearing a bra with enough padding. Cleavage or a nice round bottom. It is instinctual. So even though we've bought the cow, and milk her regularly, we still check out the rest of the herd. Sorry for the analogy.

The second thing is that it isn't a reflection on you. He isn't comparing you to the rest of the herd. He is still madly in love with you, I assume, he is just looking. When he looks at porn he isn't wishing that you look more like the porn star. He might be thinking, "I wonder if my GF will do that...", but it isn't a direct comparison of you and her. The take home message is that he likes the way you look naked. It isn't because he isn't satisfied with you.

Lastly. If you haven't caught him, and you will if you continue to invade his privacy, he will probably be masturbating as well. We are guys. This is what we do. There are times when we just want to unload the gun. We don't want romance. All we want is the seed of fantasy, a bottle of hand lotion, and five minutes alone. It is also not a reflection on his opinion of your sex lives. Sometimes the need hits and well that happens. Porn just provides that seed of imagination.

Porn just caters to mens need to see women naked. Trust me when I say that most Porn stars are willing. If you go with the big names in porn then you can be reasonably sure that no one is being exploited.

He isn't resorting to porn because you aren't willing, or are willing for that matter. It isn't because you aren't filling a sexual need.

As smoothy said. Porn for men is what romantic comedies, romances, and the similar veins of media are for women. If you enjoy those then it would be rather hypocritical for you to deny him Porn.

Approach it with understand. Put away the ego and accept it. If you continue to be confrontational about it then it will put a wedge into the relationship and this is a minor point.

[smoothy]

Thought of something that paranoid partners need to think about on the way home tonight...

I'm sure most people are familiar with Woody Allen and the charaters he played in all of his movies in the 70's and 80's.

Basically it was a neurotic and paranoid wimp...

Real He-man role model there ladies right... real turn on for all the ladies right, makes you lurch for the panty liners right?

Well the female equivalent is about as much of a boost to the male libido as Woody Allen is to the women's.

Don't be the paranoid Neurotic type... its a rare person that finds that appealing.

[DoulaLC]

It sounds as though the issue is more of you not feeling satisfied, since you knew he has looked at porn all along and it hasn't been a real issue until recently.

Feeling unsatisfied, along with perhaps some more recent feelings of insecurity, may cause you to look for reasons to blame. The viewing of porn on his part, being of a sexual nature, naturally would be a go to source to point a finger at.

You aren't feeling satisfied with your sexual relationship with him, he spends time viewing porn, when you might be thinking he should be focusing more on you and your needs. His desire to view the porn, instead of focusing on you as you think he should be doing, feeds into a sense of insecurity of him maybe not being as turned on as he used to or needing to view the porn to get turned on more first when you feel since you are ready and willing it should be enough... why the need for the porn? Sometimes just some reassurance and extra attention on his part can be enough.

In the talking you have done, have you discussed your not feeling satisfied lately with the sexual part of the relationship? What has been his response? Is there something different you need from him? If the porn viewing hasn't really changed, that is likely not the real issue. Try to determine what has changed. As was said, it may merely be part of the normal ebbs and flows in a relationship... which can encompass all areas of a relationship, including time spent together, time with friends, time for yourself, emotional needs, and physical needs.

[RustyFairmount]

KmmCA: This is precisely how porn affects relationships. Contrary to what the others have posted, porn is not akin to romantic comedies or soap operas. Porn is a graphic depiction of people who engage in sex without love. If you value sex as a means of sharing love and are offended by your BF looking at porn, if you are insulted by him lying and hiding it, then you have serious relationship issues. I suggest having a long discusson with him. You won't last if you don't address this now.

[smoothy]

KmmCA: This is precisely how porn affects relationships. Contrary to what the others have posted, porn is not akin to romantic comedies or soap operas. Porn is a graphic depiction of people who engage in sex without love. If you value sex as a means of sharing love and are offended by your BF looking at porn, if you are insulted by him lying and hiding it, then you have serious relationship issues. I suggest having a long discusson with him. You won't last if you don't address this now.

Really... You gathered this information from where exactly?

I happen to think you are a very narrow minded person to have an attitude like that towards this.

And are one of those people with control issues that can't understand how making demands of other adults is what kills relationships even faster than infidelity does. And it doesn't matter if it's the pushy man bossing the woman around or the bossy woman pushing the man around.

Jeesus... but that really, really rubbed me the wrong way... I don't order MY wife around... EVER. And I'd send ANY woman packing that tried to order me around. And know what... I'm coming up on 20 years of marriage... with NO seperations. My first and only marriage.

Good god... I bet you are a real joy to live with... get this touchy about everything else too? Must never go to the beach because heaven forbid he migh see something attractive.

Sorry to go off like that, but damn did you just read what you wrote? Talk about issues. Are you really serious? Must be a real joy living with such a prude... bet you have sex what... once or twice a month? I'd send any girlfriend packing that tried to order me around... I'd divorce and wife that tried too. Marriage isn't about domination and subjegation... yourse might be... the rest of ours no... you are supposed to be partners with your spouse... not ordering them around like your kids.

He is an adult... Its His house just as much as it is hers... Its his right to have, its his right to watch. As long as its kept out of the acess of any minors in the household.

Know what... I'm looking at some porn now... when my wife gets back from having dinner with some of her lady friends... we are going to watch some more together... and know what... we are going to have some happy marital fun after that.

Like I said.. sorry I went off, and I was in a great mood until I read this... but it really hit a raw nerve.

[DoulaLC]

Smoothy, you are looking at it from the perspective you and your wife have of it. Which, of course would be expected. Neither of you have any problem with the other viewing porn and you enjoy sharing it with each other.

Women and men do not always view porn in the same way, obviously, and when one partner becomes concerned about the amount that is being viewed, and/or the hiding of it, and that it may be effecting their relationship, they will be less inclined to see it as something helpful or fun in the relationship.

Often, when a women voices concern about her partner watching porn it comes from some insecurity that he may not think she is good enough, attractive enough, or desirable enough because many women connect porn with sex and sex with an expression of closeness and intimacy. It can be difficult for some women to not associate it with their partner wishing they looked or acted like what they are viewing... hence the feelings of not measuring up and insecurity. This can be amplified when there is a change in the physical side of their relationship.

One side of the brain tells you men are visual, women are beautiful to look at, it means nothing, women get that, but then the other side says but if you find me attractive, why am I not enough to look at and enjoy. Why not look at my picture and masturbate if you need a release. Some couples find making their own porn takes care of both partners' needs.

Women get the message on a regular basis that they should look a certain way, or behave a certain way in order to be deemed attractive and desirable. Some women don't take any of it to heart, some women have a difficult time with it. Just look at all the ads and products for younger looking skin, getting rid of wrinkles, make-up, hair dye, diet aids, plastic surgery, headlines on the magazines on ways to look 10 years younger, etc. You don't usually see men watching porn depicting women in their 30's, 40's and 50's, with 20-30 pounds they would like to lose.

The connection with soap operas and romance novels is not quite the same. Women may enjoy the nice feelings of love and romance that come from them, maybe even thinking briefly that they wished their partner would treat them the same way, but they are not viewing or reading them for sexual satisfaction. If women sometimes think to themselves, "I wish my boyfriend/husband was more romantic like that", they likely think their boyfriend/husband are thinking thoughts of, "I wish my girlfriend/wife looked more like that or acted more like that" when they view porn. It would be far more likely to be no big deal for a woman to give up reading romance novels or watching Brad Pitt movies if she enjoyed them, then it would for her partner to stop watching porn if he enjoyed it. I doubt many women are secretly watching Brad Pitt movies or hiding romance novels... :)

It's fantastic that you and your wife have the same thoughts on the subject; porn is a fun addition for many couples, or just simply an occasional outlet for some self satisfaction, but porn does become a problem in some relationships. Just look at how many threads get started on the topic.

When the viewpoints on the topic of the two people involved are not the same or when something changes in the relationship, as it appears the case for the OP, that causes porn to become a perceived factor in the changes, that's when there can be a problem that needs to be addressed.

It's not a matter of ordering someone around or being bossy, making demands never goes well. It's sharing concerns and feelings on a topic, communicating needs, and compromising so that both partners feel satisfied, respected, and appreciated.

Hope you enjoy your evening when your wife gets home... ;)

[smoothy]

Well there is talking... then there is demanding... If you are getting bent out of shap because someone else isn't doing exactly what you told them to do... well that constitutes ordering them around. THat is basically do as I say or I will make your life a living hell.

Its really uncool for a guy to do it, and its no better if it's the woman doing it. It's a form of abuse.

When you have that sort of thing going on... you have a relationship that's really not all that healthy.

Adults have rights... you get those from growing up, and doing all the things that allow you to support yourself without anyone's assistance. My wife really likes certain soap operas... I really don't like them. Do I run and demand she stop watching them? Nope... its her right...

A simple thing that is a clear indicator when someone's demands are out of line is this...

YOUR rights end... where another persons begin. In other words... you can't make someone else do something at your whim. You can ask, you can't demand if they don't want to.

Insecurities are the issue of the insecure person... they should get counseling to deal with it when it happens. Not demand everyone in their lives jump through hoops so they don't have to face their problem. You don't fix a problem by ignoring it.

If neither person want to watch porn.. fine, that's their choice. It's the guys right to look at porn ever bit as much as it it to masturbate if he feels the need... as long as he isn't doing it in front of children.

If both want to , fine also... but if one does, and the other has issues... they need to learn to cope, because the other person has more of a right to do what they want then the other party has to demand they don't.

SHe wants to rub the nub.. thats her right. She wants to read her romance novels? Fine.. thats also her right. Even if HE might be the person opposed to any of those.

And it works both ways.

A good marriage isn't a constant power struggle. I and most people develop a serious resentment if we are told we can't do something we pay for, in a house we bought and paid for... and work hard every day to keep, by someone that is supposed to love us, much less someone unrelated.

[DoulaLC]

It didn't sound as though the OP had the attitude of my way or the highway; that demands were made. They talked about her concerns, he said he understood them, and that he wouldn't look at porn anymore. He was willing to put her concern ahead of his want.

You are correct, you don't fix a problem by ignoring it, nor do you, in essence, tell your partner it's your problem, deal with it. When one partner has concerns or is upset by something, it effects both people. Both should be wanting to work together for the good of the relationship.

The OP's concern, in part, came from his changing his mind and saying he didn't see how the porn effected their relationship. This coming after he had already told her that he did understand. His viewing porn was not necessarily the issue, but viewed as taking somewhat away from her recent needs of feeling satisfied. It wasn't until she was feeling less satisfied that the porn became an issue. His being more attentive at this time, when she is needing more response from him, doesn't mean the occasional porn viewing has to stop. A compromise could be made.

Your wife's viewing of soap operas does not effect your sense of intimacy with her, of course it is not a big deal to you whether she watches them or not. The OP's partner viewing porn has effected her sense of intimacy with him.

If your wife was doing something that you felt took away from the intimacy you share, and you were feeling sexually unsatisfied with her, wouldn't you discuss it with her? Would you expect her to tell you it's your problem, deal with it or would you expect her to listen to your concerns and discuss it so that both of your needs/wants could be met?

That's something the OP and her partner should consider. A simple fix might simply be that he pay more attention to her sexual and intimacy needs at this time.

[RustyFairmount]

KmmCA, I recognize your concerns. They appear to be based on trust, not sex. Is that true? It seems that sex itself is not the issue... You like it and are a very sexual woman. What's bothering you is that your man looks elsewhere. Please understand that I am not against porn, in an of itself as others on this forum may suggest. My concern is that if he is not respecting you, if he is placing his desire to look at porn above his desire to experience "it" (fill in the blank) with you, then you both have an issue to work out together.

I'm not suggesting he give up porn, your you just accept it. I'm just saying that you should discuss this rather than bury it. Good luck. I'm dropping out of this thread because of the venomous attacks that other's are dishing out. Best wishes.

[Fr_Chuck]

I would like to remind everyone, that both liberal sexual views and those of less liberal views ( I believe with all loved referred to as a PRUDE in a previous post I may have deleted) are all welcome here. Both sides should remember to address the issue that the original poster is having, not to start fighting over whose view point is right or wrong.

Remember in that persons mind and culture their view point is right, and can work for that couple.

State your facts and stop the name calling of each other. Please.