[tomder55]

Accordingly it is the natural course of history. From the primitive communal,to slave,to feudal,to capitalist, and,inevidibly the socialist and communist phases which are not man made events, but the natural evolution of humans .
Of course there is no steering towards the end of history.

There are a whole bunch of Marxist who are not Marxist then. Perhaps Orwell's pigs are not in the Marx playbook either . But they always end up leading Communist nations .

[smoothy]

You mean the so called "educated" people.

The ones that try to teach revisionists history which is nothing but left wing propaganda, and push a liberal agenda while education levels of our children decreases year by year.

Like how they try to teach that ancient Egyptians were Blacks (totally without any proof DNA or otherwise), and not otherwise just because they have an agenda to push and damned if they will let the facts get in the way. After all, the NEA believes it's there to indoctrinate the children into socialism... not to actually educate them.

How the Liberals think they are more or better educated is dumbfounding since they cling to beliefs and party dogma and ignore reality and facts when they conflict with party propaganda.

[NeedKarma]

...they cling to beliefs and party dogma and ignore reality and facts when they conflict with party propaganda.

I'm pretty sure you just described the staunch conservatives there.

[Wondergirl]

You mean the so called "educated" people.

The ones that try to teach revisionists history

Aren't the Texas conservatives doing that by approving a curriculum that puts a religiously, politically and ideologically conservative mark (i.e. white supremacy) on history and other textbooks?

[smoothy]

I'm pretty sure you just described the staunch conservatives there.

I described the entire Democrtat party and the left wing media.

They never let facts get in their way.

[NeedKarma]

They never let facts get in their way.

Nor do the raging mad right-wings pundits here. LOL!

[smoothy]

Aren't the Texas conservatives doing that by approving a curriculum that puts a religiously, politically and ideologically conservative mark (i.e., white supremacy) on history and other textbooks?

As opposed to what is in the textbooks now? Put there by liberals with no concern for the facts?

[Wondergirl]

As opposed to what is in the textbooks now? Put there by liberals with no concern for the facts?

At least some of us will miss learning about Thomas Jefferson (the historical figure, not my deceased cat).

[excon]

As opposed to what is in the textbooks now? Put there by liberals with no concern for the facts?

Hello again, smoothy:

I'll bet you'd have NO trouble recasting the civil war, from a fight over slavery, to a war over states rights, wouldn't you? But, that ISN'T what happened.

excon

[tomder55]

Aren't the Texas conservatives doing that by approving a curriculum that puts a religiously, politically and ideologically conservative mark (i.e., white supremacy) on history and other textbooks?

This must be the sequel... 'What's the matter with Texas ' .

That is not what happened there .

At least some of us will miss learning about Thomas Jefferson (the historical figure, not my deceased cat).

The only removal of Jefferson was a revison that had called him an enlightenment thinker .They modified it to say that Jefferson was someone influences by the enlightenment . That made it more historically accurate . Jefferson was NOT an enlightenment philosopher . In the rest of the text Jefferson is given his proper due.

Actually ,come to think about it ;this appreciation of Jeffersonianism by the left is intriguing . I wonder what Jefferson's position of central government control of education by elites over local interests would be ?

[smoothy]

Hello again, smoothy:

I'll bet you'd have NO trouble recasting the civil war, from a fight over slavery, to a war over states rights, wouldn't you? But, that ISN'T what happened.

excon

That's what you want it to be... because it wasn't about slavery... revisionist history WANT'S it to be purely about that... there is no proof to back that up however.

It was a part of it,. but it wasn't purely about it like you want it to be.

But like the left does... ignore the facts and try to preach propaganda... or make history books into works of fiction. Then argue... its in the book, after they wrote the book.

[tomder55]

Every other cause I've heard can be traced directly back to the slavery issue. It was the one irreconciable dispute in the early Republic. Compromises inside the Constitution and subsequent compromises only put bandaids on the fissure.

[smoothy]

Every other cause I've heard can be traced directly back to the slavery issue. It was the one irreconciable dispute in the early Republic. Compromises inside the Constitution and subsequent compromises only put bandaids on the fissure.

Oh it was part of it... but indirectly... not the sole reason for it.

That does make a huge difference. The north tried to outlaw it... not because they gave a damn about the slaves... but to put the screws on the south. And it instigated other factors that lead to the South Seceding and sparking the war.

Not because of the Norths Moral superiority or Slavery would not have been allowed as long as it was. In fact if it was over Moral reasons... it would NEVER have been allowed from the beginning.

[tomder55]

I did not make any reference to the moral superiority of the North .I'm well aware of the economic differences between the regions. Still ,slavery was the common denominator that tied all the causes together .

[tomder55]

This must be the sequel... 'What's the matter with Texas ' .

That is not what happened there .


The only removal of Jefferson was a revison that had called him an enlightenment thinker .They modified it to say that Jefferson was someone influences by the enlightenment . That made it more historically accurate . Jefferson was NOT an enlightenment philosopher . In the rest of the text Jefferson is given his proper due.

Actually ,come to think about it ;this appreciation of Jeffersonianism by the left is intriguing . I wonder what Jefferson's position of central government control of education by elites over local interests would be ?

I find it interesting that no one looks to see what the smart people do with their texts . The State Board of Education of California is just as influential in determining the nation's texts as Texas. They are bland p.c. and very much display a bias towards the progressive agenda. According to a text publisher ,No textbook can show African Americans playing sports, Asians using computers, or women taking care of children.
http://greatbooksblog.wordpress.com/...al-publishing/

I realize of course that these images can be stereotypical. But they are far from negative stereotypes and there is certainly no dishonor in these activities. The reality is that there are women in the work force and women who stay home and raise children . There are African-Americans who participate in many professions ,and African-Americans who play sports . Why mandate this exclusion ? I suspect a lot of it has to do with the discussion I've had with Tut on this topic... the process of tear down and reconstruct.


The American Textbook council wrote an essay that is quite revealing on the issues of this OP... who wants to keep the masses stupid ?Who are the cadres ?

In today's eighth-grade American histories literary quality and episodic description take a plunge. These stand in contrast to John Garraty's excellent The Story of America, introduced in California in 1991 and now out of print. California has now adopted the text-light, picture-captioned eighth-grade textbook, American Nation, from Prentice Hall, full of boxes and white space, a book that commands a huge share of the market nationwide.

In 2005 California adopted virtually every book that came to the table, including some shockingly dumbed down and biased volumes. Now the books are established in classrooms.

American Textbook Council - California Update

[smoothy]

I did not make any reference to the moral superiority of the North .I'm well aware of the economic differences between the regions. Still ,slavery was the common denominator that tied all the causes together .

I agree... and a modern equivalent would be, say, someone got ticked off with the Construction Industry (or Food service, or a lot of retail)for whatever particular reason... and as retribution singled them out to make sure they never, ever used Illegal day labor.

Because if you know anyone in the industry at all, you can't run a jobsite without being fluent in spanish. As late as 25 years ago it was a decent paying respectible blue collar job that an American could raise a family on and provide a decent lifestyle.

Today, wages are lower than they were 25 years ago even before making allowances for inflation, because of the numbers of illegal and day labor being paid a fraction of what was paid to legal US citizens. And is so prevalent that you can't hire legal crews and pay a fair wage while remaining competitive.

The Industrial north essentually worked to cut off the labor intensive agricultural souths cheap labor as payback.

Taken into perspective... todays illegal worker problem isn't that far removed from events that led to the Civil war. Common sense it to toss them out, after all the law requires just that... but interests that depend on the cheap labor have politicians in their pocket bought and paid for defending their practice. Not unlike the old south and slavery.

And if you give it some thought... it ISN'T much of a stretch.

[Wondergirl]

Today, wages are lower than they were 25 years ago even before making allowances for inflation, because of the numbers of illegal and day labor being paid a fraction of what was paid to legal US citizens. And is so prevalent that you can't hire legal crews and pay a fair wage while remaining competitive.

The obvious solution is to severely penalize the employers who hire undocumented workers and pay them low wages that undercut the standard and reasonable.

[smoothy]

The obvious solution is to severely penalize the employers who hire undocumented workers and pay them low wages that undercut the standard and reasonable.

How about penalizing the people that broke the law violating our borders. The Illegals themselves.

That's not much different than arresting the sotore clerk for having marked money from a bank robbery, but letting the bank robbers that stole the money go free.

Many of the illegals after all have fake (forged) papers with stolen or invalid SSN's that may appear valid to employers that don't have the ability to verify them,

Incidentally... the illegals that use these are also guilty of Identity theft, besides the other laws they broke. They are far from innocent.

Not all illegals are obviously illegal to the employer.

I don't have a problem going after employers as well, that obviously do not have the required papers for each employee. And THAT is not the case in a good many.

The Illegals in many cases provide the required papers, they just aren't real... could YOU spot a real from fake green card? And How. Unless you work with them daily, and even then its not a sure thing... I know I couldn't.

Some employers get duped... not all, but enough do.

[Wondergirl]

How about penalizing the people that broke the law violating our borders.

If there were no cushy jobs (harvesting crops in Arizona and Texas heat, running the dishwasher at the back of a hot restaurant kitchen, etc.) with money handed to them under the table, the illegals would not come.

[smoothy]

If there were no cushy jobs (harvesting crops in Arizona and Texas heat, running the dishwasher at the back of a hot restaurant kitchen, etc.) with money handed to them under the table, the illegals would not come.

You have some very real misconceptions about illegals.

I know several employers (Personal friends of mine) that got notified of having multiple employees using other peoples SSN's after years of them working there, having taxes taken out, etc.. before they found out. Many had outstayed expired H-1B visas, or Visas to attend college, not work.

All illegals aren't Latino... not all illegals barely speak english... and not all illegals are poorly eductated. And MOST IMPORTANT, not all illegals hold menial labor jobs.

I've seen companies that had illegal computer programmers and engineers working that got caught and deported. Some were Indian, some were East European as examples.