[shazamataz]

Oh yes, forgive me, I have no idea what the difference between training and behavior is.

[Aurora_Bell]

Again I ask, what breeds and how many dogs do you work with Maria?

I find it highly insulting that you would come here and insult an Experts knowledge. She has been deemed an expert after proving her self to be VERY knowledgeable.

Oh, whether it's dog behavior or dog training, it's teaching the owner how to act and re act with specific issues and commands. Yes we all know the difference between a behaviorist and a trainer, and had you spent any time reading previous posts and threads or any time on these dog forums, you would already know that.

[Sariss]

This is exactly why I decided not to get into dog training, haha. I'll keep with strictly medical knowledge.

[Aurora_Bell]

I love dog training, I love the obstacles and I love the difference of opinion, I just don't like a 'looking down my nose' attitude.

[De Maria]

I would also like to know how many and what breeds you work with Maria?

I've owned 10 dogs in my life. Five of which were pit bulls. I currently own only one dog. A rescue which the pound said was a german shepherd/lab mix, but which physically is identical to a Louisiana Catahoula leopard dog.

I can honestly say with 100% assurance that Shaz has no mis-conseptiopn of dogs.

Good for Shaz.

Remember when you are watching Caesar or Brad, these are condensed shows. These dogs aren't cured in a half hour like the show portrays. These dogs can take weeks, months, even years to obtain the result.

You and others keep bringing up Cesar as though I've only and always used Cesar's techniques. It is true today because I have proven the methods at home.

However, I first began using the Koehler Method of Natural Guard dog training. Anyone who has studied Koehler's methods will possibly see the resemblance with what I call the power walk. I was quite satisfied with the results using that method. But I also love Sea World. And I began to wonder how they trained even THEIR CATS to be so obedient.

I began to study positive reinforcement training. Including clicker training which I couldn't grasp at all. Failed totally with the clicker.

But positive reinforcement worked pretty well and although Koehler condemns the idea of training your dog to work for rewards, I combined positive reinforcement with Koehler methods. I felt as though the results were even better.

Then I heard about dog psychology about ten years ago. I read a book by a woman whose name escapes me, but the title of the book was something like, "Become your dog's pack leader". The title intrigued me. So I read as much as I could on the subject. I realized that much of what was being taught was already in the Koehler method and a small amount was already part of the positive reinforcement method. And even though I had no behavioral problems to correct, I began to apply those methods. They seemed to work. But I had no point of reference to compare. As far as I was aware, my dogs had no problems to resolve. But the dog psychology did no harm.

Along came Cesar.

Although I had heard of Cesar's existence many years ago. He was an enigma. I knew there was this child who seemingly could communicate with dogs and who had come to the US to take care of dogs for celebrities, but I had not heard of any of his methods until about three years ago.

A picture is worth a thousand words. The first time I saw Cesar's show I was astounded. Here I could see what I had only been reading about put into action. I learned what I was doing well and what I was doing wrong and I learned to read my dog's body language and attitudes.

I learned that I was giving my dog mixed signals by my behavior. And I considered myself a fairly knowledgeable dog person. In fact, in the years I've had this dog, I had only one issue which I couldn't resolve.

Anxiety and trembling at the sound of thunder.

Thanks to God, Cesar had a show with a dog exhibiting the same behaviour. And he said all we need to do is to quit reassuring the dog verbally and physically (stroking) when he is exhibiting this behavior.

That is exactly what we had been doing. Since we felt sorry for the dog, whenever he became anxious and fearful, we coocooed him and stroked him. But if anything, the behaviour seemed to be getting worse.

So, we talked about it and applied Cesar's method. When the next storm came around, the dog came to me trembling and whining, I got up and walked away. My wife and children did the same. So the dog simply laid down and trembled by himself. We don't know when it happened exactly, but soon the dog got up and walked to the living room where we were seated and curled up at our feet. No more trembling or whining.

And that behaviour has not been seen again.

So, Cesar has made a believer out of me.

[shazamataz]

That's good for you, so can you respect others opinions on this thread please?

[Alty]

With that explanation, I'm surprised my dog doesn't attack everyone considering he gets excited when I get the leash out and I let him take his time and sniff and do his thing during the first 10 minutes of our walk... I must have some horrible dominant, aggressive dog.

I'm assuming you're referring to my post about walking. :)

The main reason I've taught my dogs to sit and wait for a walk, walk and wait to sniff, is because I have 3 dogs, 2 of which are larger breeds. When we go for walks I usually go alone, with the 3 dogs. If I had three dogs jumping on me to get their leashes on, I'd never get a leash on. If I had three dogs sniffing every tree we come upon, I'd be walking 24/7.

Chewy (the beagle) is a very dominant dog. It's his way or the highway most times, and he's been the hardest to train. He's also still young and beagles as a breed are known for their pigheadedness. He's taken a lot more work, a lot more patience, and a lot more time to train than the other two, but we've stuck by it and now he's a really great family member.

Going for a walk should be enjoyable, but not only for the dog, for you too. I don't like being pulled around like a sled, or stopping every two seconds to sniff a blade of grass. That's why I've trained my dogs to sit calmly at the door before the walk, wait to get their leashes on, and than walk calmly along my side until I say it's time for a break.

Dogs are natural followers, they just have to learn who to follow. In our house it's the humans, not just me. My kids can walk all three dogs and not have a problem. Even my 8 year old can walk the three of them alone (if she was allowed to cross the street by herself). ;)

[Sariss]

It wasn't directed at your post, Alty :)

[Alty]

I think I must be the only one here who doesn't brush their dogs teeth :o

Brodys are squeeky clean and white as snow but Pradas are looking a little grungy, maybe I will have to cave in and give it a shot :eek:

Shazzy, I've never brushed my dogs teeth. Indy is 15 years old, has never even had a teeth cleaning done at the vet, and he still has all his teeth. In fact, the vet always comments that he has the teeth of a 2 year old.

On the flip side, our poodle Silver had his teeth brushed (by us) every week, went for teeth cleaning at the vet once a year and died with one tooth left in his mouth.

The difference between my dogs and Silver. My dogs get dry dog food. Once in a while I'll mix the wet dog food in as a treat, but for every day diet it's the dry. The vet swears this is why all my dogs have very healthy teeth.

Just an fyi. :)

[Sariss]

I do notice that a lot with dogs teeth by the way. The ones on soft food tend to build up tartar much faster.
And I know a lot of people have the OMFGHORRIBLE mentality on veterinary diets, but since we've started selling a Dental diet by Medi Cal, the clients who put their pets on it... holy CRAP a difference! Works wonders for those who don't want to/can't brush their pets teeth.

[De Maria]

Again I ask, what breeds and how many dogs do you work with Maria?

Answered.

I find it highly insulting that you would come here and insult an Experts knowledge. She has been deemed an expert after proving her self to be VERY knowledgeable.

Was I the one challenging her messages? Or is she the one challenging mine?

Oh, whether it's dog behavior or dog training, it's teaching the owner how to act and re act with specific issues and commands. Yes we all know the difference between a behaviorist and a trainer, and had you spent any time reading previous posts and threads or any time on these dog forums, you would already know that.

Not in my opinion. I do have the right to express my own opinion, don't I?

You said:
Oh, whether it's dog behavior or dog training, it's teaching the owner how to act and re act with specific issues and commands.

That is dog training.

Dog psychology is training the dog owner to recognize what his dog is communicating by his behaviour. It also trains the dog owner to communicate non verbally with his dog.

Implementing dog psychology methods is a foundation for dog training.

[shazamataz]

Soft food does contribute a lot but so goes genetics.

The saliva causes the decay and tartar and just like other inherited traits, the acidity of a dogs saliva can also be inherited.
So that's why you can have 2 dogs that eat the same food but one has good teeth and the other bad... fun fact.

Of course, if you do have a dog with 'bad' saliva dry biscuits are a must to help keep them cleaner.

[De Maria]

That's good for you, so can you respect others opinions on this thread please?

Was I the one who began to challenge your opinions? Or are you the one who began to challenge mine?

If I did not challenge you, why do you characterize me as disrespecting your opinions? Did you not call me out and try to prove that my methods were wrong?

[Sariss]

Soft food does contribute a lot but so goes genetics.

TRUE. Oh my lord some breeds. All of our Chihuahuas at the clinic who have had dental work done look like they never had it done in the first place a year later.

[shazamataz]

Quote: Shazamataz
However, I'm a little confused on your definition of dog psychology... do you mean it is more like just the owner being educated in how to train and react around a dog?

Quote: De Maria: Yes.

You said it.

[shazamataz]

Was I the one who began to challenge your opinions? Or are you the one who began to challenge mine?

If I did not challenge you, why do you characterize me as disrespecting your opinions? Did you not call me out and try to prove that my methods were wrong?

I offered a differing opinion and asked for a discussion, not for you to say I have many misconceptions about dogs.
So again, I ask you to respect others opinions, you can offer a differing one sure, I believe I told you it was great you were offering a different opinion, but that's doesn't mean you are right and everyone else is wrong.

[shazamataz]

I am going to bow out of this thread for now before it gets completely hijacked.

Can somebody please alert me if and when Rick or Luda come back?

Thanks.

[Alty]

Before this all gets out of hand, I'll address this one time and then can we can get back to helping Rick, Lida, the kids and little John (why do I feel like I'm in a robin hood movie? Little John. Giggle).

DeMaria, you're not new to this site but this is the very first time I've ever seen you on the dog forum. I have to wonder why, but no matter what, your input is welcome, but... yes, there's a but, you seem to have your way and only your way, disregarding what others have said.

Meet 5 people in the dog park, discuss training techniques, and all 5 will tell you something different. There is no sure fire, cut and dry, do this and only this method. Just like not all methods of education work for every child, not every method of training, or psychology, works for every dog. It's trial and error, learning what works for you and for your dog.

There are four amazing animal experts on this site and there are also many amazing members (without the Expert title) that are dog and other animal experts as well. One thing that's different about the dog forums is that we all respect each others opinions. If you read our posts, we have many different views, many different techniques, but we all respect others opinions, and we all love dogs.

There is no step by step instruction book on raising a puppy that will solve all your problems. I've read many (too many), and not one has solved every issue. I don't rely on glorified methods to teach my dogs to be family members. I've taken bits and pieces of others work, added methods that work for me, and have come up with completely different methods based on the dog in question. I am not a dog trainer or a dog psychologist, I'm simply a person that's never been without a dog, and has learned through trial and error how to work with the dogs that live with me and my family and make them the best dogs I can.

As a group, Shazzy, Bella, myself and others have used many different techniques. A few things are tried, tested, and true, other things have been used by different members and worked for their dog, but not others. Dog training, dog psychology, it isn't a sure thing, it's work, and you have to be willing to listen to many different opinions, try many different techniques, before you find what works for you and your dog.

I welcome you to the forum, and I know that Shazzy and Bella do as well, but please keep in mind that we did not get our Expert status because we're cute (even though we're adorable). We got it because we know what we're talking about, and we know how to listen.

Please respect other opinions on this forum. You've already stepped on a few toes because it seems to be your way or the highway. That's not helpful and it doesn't make for a good team. That's what we all are. Everyone who posts in the animal forum is a team, working together to help the OP, in this case Rick and his family.

By all means, post your advice, but when someone posts theirs, please do not put it down because unless you've tried that technique with every dog, you cannot say it doesn't work.

Now, back to helping Rick, Lida, kids and fur baby.

[Alty]

For all those that want to discuss training techniques without further hijacking this thread;

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/dogs/d...te-503320.html

Rick and Lida, I surely hope that this discussion hasn't turned you off asking for advice. I will wait until you ask a specific question before I post here again.

As you can see, we're all passionate about our dogs. I do have to say that this kind of disagreement is not the norm for the dogs forum and I apologize that it happened in your thread.

In the end, we can only offer you advice, it's up to you to choose what you want to use and to figure out which techniques work not only for you, but for John.

I hope you're not discouraged from coming back. Also, we need more pictures. :)

[De Maria]

...

We got a good dvd about general training,...

Thanks!

I forgot to mention that Cesar also has dvd's. So you don't have to wait for the weekly show:

Amazon.com: cesar millan dvd