[Wondergirl]

More Islamic Terrorists have been killed in the last several months

How many innocent Muslim men, women, and children have we killed since 9/11?

[smoothy]

How many innocent Muslim men, women, and children have we killed since 9/11?

Far less than were killed here on 9/11. Far fewer than the number of innocent Jews that have be killed by Muslims since then... and far fewer than the numbers of Innocent people of any faith that have been killed by Musims in terrorist attacks overseas since then.

And incidentally... the number of "Innocent Muslims" targeted to be killed by us is Zero.

The number of innocent victims targeted by Muslim Terrorists as been and remains 100% of the deaths cause.

Of course... those who grasp the Concept that the Terrorists use civilians as Human shields every day... can see how collateral damage occurs.

[Wondergirl]

And incidently.....the number of "Innocent Muslims" targeted to be killed by us is Zero.

Who were all those people we killed in Iraq since the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq?

[Synnen]

Who were all those people we killed in Iraq since the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq?

Silly Wondergirl. Smoothy thinks that ALL of those people were terrorists that were behind the 9/11 attacks! They DESERVE to die, because they're not even from the country where Al Qaida is, and because they aren't of the faction of Islam that perpetuated the attacks. NOT because they're Muslim and have oil that the US wants to control. And absolutely, definitely, in no way-shape-or-form is it because the people in power made a whole CRAPLOAD of money by going to war.

"Al Qaida attacked us! Let's attack Iraq, because we can't get to Al Qaida!"

And hey--using lack of knowledge and pointing out that someone is different has been good enough to make war for centuries. Why change now just because we're the most enlightened (ha!) nation in the world?

PS--whatever happened to loving your neighbor as yourself and turning the other cheek? And most of all, what happened to forgiveness?

[smearcase]

Smoothy,
I understand the concept of targeted vs collateral.
That's two of us so far, that do.

[Synnen]

So... Abortion clinics are targeted, and molested boys are collateral?

[smoothy]

Who were all those people we killed in Iraq since the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq?

Since they won't tell you this on CBS, ABC, NBC, CNN or NBC.

#1, we didn't INVADE Iraq in 2003.

Ever hear of Cease Fire agreements? Try and Google it up. Read it, its informative for those who don't understand what that is.

#2, They fought back... that made them fair targets... they had plenty of time to beat feet and leave. Civilians were warned to leave the area in advance.

[smoothy]

So...Abortion clinics are targeted, and molested boys are collateral?

Your words... not mine.

But take a step back and look at the circumstances... if Priests were blowing up Alter boys... rather than just blowing them... there really is a world of difference.

Doesn't make either right... but it does make them different.

[smoothy]

Silly Wondergirl. Smoothy thinks that ALL of those people were terrorists that were behind the 9/11 attacks! They DESERVE to die, because they're not even from the country where Al Qaida is, and because they aren't of the faction of Islam that perpetuated the attacks. NOT because they're Muslim and have oil that the US wants to control. And absolutely, definitely, in no way-shape-or-form is it because the people in power made a whole CRAPLOAD of money by going to war.

"Al Qaida attacked us! Let's attack Iraq, because we can't get to Al Qaida!"

And hey--using lack of knowledge and pointing out that someone is different has been good enough to make war for centuries. Why change now just because we're the most enlightened (ha!) nation in the world?

PS--whatever happened to loving your neighbor as yourself and turning the other cheek? And most of all, what happened to forgiveness?

Synnen... Look up cease fire agreement. Read up on it. You are a lot younger than me so I'm sure the PC public schools decided to leave out a lot of stuff they didn't want kids to learn since they started some years earlier at the beginning of the Politically correct erea, I learned a LOT of stuff AFTER College by coincidental first hand experience with a long chain of unrelated events (that ended up on the news) over the last 25 years and continues from time to time that taught me the sheer volume of misinformation that gets spread around pretending to be news... not just here but other countries as well.

Saddam begged for a cease fire agreement to save his sorry butt 10 years earlier... then he failed to honor it time and time again. He got what he had coming.

And before you repeat the same thing I've heard regurgitated time and time again... they don't have an expiration date. Want an example.

Do you think the Korean war ended in the 1950's?

If you said yes... you are wrong. It never ended, it stopped under a cease fire agreement that exists to this very day. Cease Fire agreements ARE recognised by the United Nations. The Republicans didn't dream it up.


THe Left however pretends it was about something else, the 9/11 crap was the straw that broke the camels back... and it was time to call the debts due. Previous actions by that Stalin wannabe justified it many times over the previous 10 years.

[Synnen]

I'm not THAT young, Smoothy :)

I'm going back to college--not my first time through. And I gave birth to a child old enough to start college this week herself.

I know what a cease fire is. I just find it HIGHLY amusing that we decided to go after Iraq for breaking theirs AFTER 9/11, even though Iraq wasn't behind the attacks.

And please--there's no way that even YOU can't see how much economics influenced that war. Even I know that the Chicago school of economics is wrong and evil and bad, and led us to our current economic issues--and every one of the businessmen behind going to war in the Middle East FIRMLY follow the Chicago school.

I ALSO know that we're in an extended cease fire with Korea--I have cousins who have served both in Iraq and in Korea that say Korea is MUCH scarier.

[Wondergirl]

Alter boys

How did transgenders get into this thread?

[smoothy]

I'm not THAT young, Smoothy :)

I'm going back to college--not my first time through. And I gave birth to a child old enough to start college this week herself.

I know what a cease fire is. I just find it HIGHLY amusing that we decided to go after Iraq for breaking theirs AFTER 9/11, even though Iraq wasn't behind the attacks.

And please--there's no way that even YOU can't see how much economics influenced that war. Even I know that the Chicago school of economics is wrong and evil and bad, and led us to our current economic issues--and every one of the businessmen behind going to war in the Middle East FIRMLY follow the Chicago school.

I ALSO know that we're in an extended cease fire with Korea--I have cousins who have served both in Iraq and in Korea that say Korea is MUCH scarier.

I've got a good ten years on you give or take a few... and the PC stuff started when I was in high school. I seem to remember about 1976 give or take a year or two, at least where I lived. And I did not grow up in leftyland by anyone's description around there. But a very conservative pocket in a very entitlement mentality minded part of a left leaning state.

Economics has nothing to do with Iraq. The claims we are taking their oil fields is total BS. Who runs them, who gets the proceeds... certainly isn't us. It hasn't even been made into or declaired a US territory which if what you said were true would have been done.

As far as their breaking cease fire agreements... you ARE aware of the frequency and seriousness of their repeated violations? And there were far more than you would have seen on CNN.

[smoothy]

How did transgenders get into this thread?

Who where? Seriously, do you not know what alter boys are? And what they do... technically girls share in that part in many Churches, not exclusively boys these days.

I'm not even Catholic and I know most of what they do. THey hold the banner, the Bible the other stuff for communion and help the priest at the Alter. Yeah they do more... but I'm not Catholic so the details elude me.

[Wondergirl]

Who where? Seriously, do you not know what alter boys are? and what they do...technically girls share in that part in many Churches, not exclusively boys these days.

"Alter" means change.

*putting on my thinking cap*

Do you perhaps mean "altar"?

[smoothy]

I'm not THAT young, Smoothy :)


I ALSO know that we're in an extended cease fire with Korea--I have cousins who have served both in Iraq and in Korea that say Korea is MUCH scarier.

Strangely enough, with all the Military members I know and am related to... I don't think any of them were stationed on the DMZ in Korea ever... Afghanistan, Iraq... Panama, and many other places... elsewhere in Korea, but none on the DMZ. I do have Uncles that Fought in Korea only one is still alive (age and health problems got them not many years ago, not the North Koreans).

But I can believe that they (the Brain Washed North Koreans) are considered scarier. Most of that country is force fed BS and propaganda from birth... and have been for several generations. TV's and radios highly restricted forget internet, they are lucky to have food. That equals a bunch of people without a clue what they are backing up, they have no reference or real concept of the outside world.

[Synnen]

Too long to get into right now--believe me, their explanations were pretty reasonable as to why it's scarier in Korea.

And I wasn't even thinking about the oil fields for the economic side of it. Again--look at companies like Haliburton. Look at other major US companies that are making money by being the SOLE providers to the military in Iraq. Look at how American companies get contracts over local companies. American companies are driving out local companies that cannot compete--then driving up prices. Name ONE aspect of the War in Iraq where a US company is NOT getting the business and therefore the money. And what makes it worse is that the TAXPAYERS are paying these companies to economically take over the Middle East.

It's not about the oil--yet. It's about taking over the REST of the Middle Eastern economy. And the taxpayer isn't benefitting from this. Private companies and stockholders in corporations are getting the money.

[smoothy]

Too long to get into right now--believe me, their explanations were pretty reasonable as to why it's scarier in Korea.

And I wasn't even thinking about the oil fields for the economic side of it. Again--look at companies like Haliburton. Look at other major US companies that are making money by being the SOLE providers to the military in Iraq. Look at how American companies get contracts over local companies. American companies are driving out local companies that cannot compete--then driving up prices. Name ONE aspect of the War in Iraq where a US company is NOT getting the business and therefore the money. And what makes it worse is that the TAXPAYERS are paying these companies to economically take over the Middle East.

It's not about the oil--yet. It's about taking over the REST of the Middle Eastern economy. And the taxpayer isn't benefitting from this. Private companies and stockholders in corporations are getting the money.

No need to go into detail for rthe Korea examples... I know enough about that to believe what they felt about it.

Haliburton again... You ever consider the WallStreet bailout went to major Obama contributors and the ONE firm that contributed most to the republicans was the ONE firm that was refused bailout money...

Seem like coincidnece that 1.5 TRILLION dollars went to Democrat party supporters... and none of it went to actually helping the taxpayers.

They could have given every taxpayer an entire year without paying taxes and still not have spent what they did. THAT would have done wonders to help the economy rather than lining the pockets of Obama worshippers.

Also... Name one other American Firm large enough to do what Haliburton did? There isn't any. And Bechtel doesn't specialize in those type of projects. Or would you have recommended paying all of that money to foreign firms hiring all foreign workers totally exempt from US laws or influence.

And if someone is going to bring up **** Cheneys one time involvement with them... Just one of Many exaples... Nancy Pelosis Husband... research it a bit... don't just take my word on it.

Charles Rangal, finally after HOW many years of his corrupt behaviour is something Finally being done if only for a show.. and Maxine Waters? All democrats that DID have conflicts of Interest... How about Obamas own previous stock holdings if the Cheney example is being used for a goal post?

[excon]

So if my neighbor has the right to do something to his property; I should not have a voice in opposition ;or I should automatically and submissively approve the neighbor's plans regardless of how it affects me or my property ?
Nonsense !

Hello again, tom:

I've thought a lot about your question... I think the adage, your Constitutional rights END at my nose, is appropriate here. In your property example, we have to go back to local zoning laws. IF, whatever your neighbor is doing on his property, that you think negatively effects you, meets your local code, then your problem is not with HIM. It's with your local government.

So, YES, you SHOULD automatically and PROUDLY support your neighbor for seeking his RIGHTS.

excon

[tomder55]

I have a long running dispute with my neighbor. His Constitutional legal rights to do things to his property negatively impacts my property value.

I also had to defend my property ,neighborhood ,and township from the legal constitutional right of a developer to use existing zoning regulations to fundamentally alter the character of our neighborhood and town. He wanted to build condensed housing units ;and he was able to convince the town board to change the zoning for his property to allow it. It would've almost overnight doubled the population of the town with the residents footing the bill for the required services ,infrastructure... as well as dealing with the loss in property values the devlopment would've brought.

I exercised my legal Constitutional right to persuade,protest ,negotiate and ultimately get involved in the local politics to vote out almost the entire town board;the mayor ,and replace them with folks who saw things my way.
Had they been more open to compromise ,there would today be a reasonable housing development there ,and the incumbents would still be representing the town. Now ,there is no development ,and the owner was persuaded to sell his property to the town for open space.

In the cases I just cited ;all sides were exercising legitimate constitutional rights .
There is nothing different in this case except that we who do not think a Mosque should be built where it is proposed are being vilified for daring to oppose it.

[Wondergirl]

we who do not think a Mosque should be built where it is proposed are being vilified for daring to oppose it.

I haven't vilified you. I agree you have the right to protest. I've done that myself. I'm against those who said the community center shouldn't be built because it will be done by Muslims.