[smoothy]

Smoothy--Nope, I wasn't there.

I WAS in Seattle during the WTO riots, though--and during the lockdown at New Year's from 1999-2000 because of the terrorist threats to the Space Needle. I was living on the west coast when they caught a man coming in from Canada with a bomb, and when they started searching for his confederates.

No, not ALL Muslims are terrorists. Not even MOST of them are. A small percentage ARE--just like a small percentage of any OTHER religion are evil.

You will never see how holding an entire religion accountable for the actions of a few is making a Nazi of you. Your idea is to persecute and treat as secondary citizens ALL Muslims, even though there are quite a few Muslims who are American. How is that different from stopping Jews from having the same rights in 1930s Germany as other German citizens?

I don't care WHAT happened to you. You have a scary mind when it comes to Muslims, because you don't operate on FACTS--just on your beliefs that they're ALL to blame for 9/11.

I hope that they DO build the Mosque there, and that you someday get to visit it to see that your fears are false.

You know... not all Nazis were bad... nor are all White Supremacists either... or Militias...

But everyone says they are just like Timothy McVeigh...

Nobody has proven most Muslims don't support the radical element in some way. You have seen the Studies in the UK on the topic in the last year or so, right... backs up what I said.

Do you support a Militia headquarters across the Street from the building in Oklahoma City that was bombed... after all they aren't all bad people and it's their right. Never mind what the people of Oklahoma City think.


A mosque there is a major act of disrespect to Americans... and check the news recent pols back that up.

Most Americans including myself don't give a damn if they build a mosquew ot two... just not anywhere close to a site of Islamic Terrorism on our soil. There is a HUGE difference there I'm sure you can see. Its not a preexisting Mosque... there is no need or want of a new one there. It's a symbolic assult on America.

The WTO riots were chump change... windows were getting broken... people weren't getting killed in large numbers. ANd yes... I was near the same riots in Washington DC, true they were not as bad... but those idiot nutcases did cause a lot of damage and trouble here too. I was just as far from those at my office as the Mohammed Attah memorial Mosque will be from the WTC site if its ever built.

THese guys were Muslims.. they were acting on Behalf of Islam... maybe not with the support of all Muslims... but the Pope doesn't have the full support of ALL catholics either. Yet many people hold the Church responsible for the acts of a few priests acting on their own.

If you want to look at it, Hitler did a lot of good things... however they did plenty of bad things too and you don't hear,"well not all Nazis were killing Jews", not all Germans in Germany supported Hitler either... but they were all held accountible just the same.

And I'm not arguing that they should have been off the hook either... but there is a big double standard here, Belong to the KKK or (fill in the blank) you are all considered bad... Belong to the religion that's responsible for most of the worlds terrorism... and heven forbid you consider them Muslim when that's exactly what they were... they did not act alone... they had LOTS of help from Muslim Imams and places Like Saudi Arabia.

Well, I do agree the Wahabi (likely misspelled) flavor has the biggest percentage of whack jobs... and no doubt not ALL muslims may feel that way, but take an honest look how Christinas, Jews, even Budists and whatever other faith you chose to select are treat in ANY Muslim majority nation. None of them are models of tollerance.

Try as a non-muslim to enter Mecca or Medina... two examples... you aren't going to be able to... and if you try they will arrest you.

Examples of the wonderful tollerance practiced by Islam. I bet they aren't barred from Visiting the Vatican, or even Jerusalem, much less arrested for trying.

[Wondergirl]

What that stuff, move to Saudi Arabia or Iran where nobody has rights.

Doesn't sound like you want certain people to have any here either.

[smoothy]

This is off-topic, but his records aren't being kept any more secret than your own are. The public doesn't have a right to see his personal records any more than the public has a right to see yours.

Funny, it seems that has ONLY applied to Obama... I seem to remember an uproar when George Bush didn't release his records fast enough.

Every other previous President not only was expected to... but did.

Besides, most of these records are not greatly private... College transcrips, Voting records... etc when he was in Illinoise... all of these SHOULD be public information. But of Course the Messiah is special and has something to hide NO other prior president had to hide. Not even the King of word Parsing Bill Clinton.

And Sorry... private citizens might have that right... not public officials in elected office.

[XOXOlove]

Because #1...its a sybol of Islam very near to a major act of Islamic Terrorism. MOST americans view this as a VERY offensive action by Muslims with absolutely NO concern about the sensitivities and feeling of the entire American Nation, and an act of total Disrespect to this country and its people as a whoile. Most Americans DO feel that way...recent Polls in the last two days shows roughly 73% (with a small margin of error as no poll is 100% accurate) of the American public is very much against that Mosque.

Let me toss this out as an example. Say a ticked off Christian flew a plan into Mecca during the Pilgramage...kills a bunch of people...in a few years WE pay to build a HUGE Catholic Church near the site.....how would Muslims view that. I bet you would have thousands blowing themselves up to take it down. Of course there would be a few Muslims that might be fine with a church there....but if they said it in public they would be persecuted in their own land.


Now thats hypothetical since CHristians aren't allowed in Mecca or Medina, much less allowed to build a church there.....so much for repsect for other religions by Islam.

Not only Christains aren't allowed in Mecca, a lot of Muslims aren't either. Either way, America is supposed to be a symbol of freedom of religion. We are a melting pot nation that doesn't exclude others and we should know better than not to exclude other religions from our community. Also, not all Muslims are unaccepting of others- especially American Muslims. You are making generalizations of the whole religion by saying that Islam is unaccepting of others. The mosque my family belongs to allows anyone to come in- Christians, Jews, Hindus etc- and they even hold peace conferences. Obviously they want to be a part of the community and accept the majority of the nation especially if they are raising American-born children.

Also, just because the 9/11 attacks were committed by Islamists doesn't mean that the Muslims building the mosque are extremists. The trade center attacks were done by fundamentalist Muslims, not by Muslims who are trying to be part of a community.

If a Christain group had bombed the World Trade Center and if some other group of Christians wanted to build a church near there, no one would stop them because everyone would know that not all Christains are terriorists because they make up a large part of the world. The same should go for Muslims; Islam is the 2nd biggest world religion and there are mosques in every state in America. Plus there are probably more mosques in NY than in any other state. It shouldn't make too much of a difference if there's one down the street from ground zero.

[smoothy]

Doesn't sound like you want certain people to have any here either.

Really... examples please... Foriegn Terrorism supporters have a "RIGHT" to build a Memorial to terrorists a stones thro=w from a site of Terrorism... but nobody has a right to protest against it.

After all where do you thing they are getting that 100 million dollars anyway?

Exactly where in the constitution does the left have exclusive rights to protest, and where are Conservatives disallowed the right to protest.

After all 8 years of BS from the left during Bushes terms seemed fine to you. Not to mention Obamas been in office tshy of 2 years and still accepts responsibility for nothing that has happened in that time. And the left believes nothing is his fault either.

Typical lefts double standards...

Illegals and foreign governments have more rights than any consrvative Americans have in their minds.

[smoothy]

Not only Christains aren't allowed in Mecca, a lot of Muslims aren't either. Either way, America is supposed to be a symbol of freedom of religion. We are a melting pot nation that doesn't exclude others and we should know better than not to exclude other religions from our community. Also, not all Muslims are unexepting of others- especially American Muslims. You are making generalizations of the whole religion by saying that Islam is unexcepting of others. The mosque my family belongs to allows anyone to come in- Christians, Jews, Hindus etc- and they even hold peace conferences. Obviously they want to be a part of the community and except the majority of the nation especially if they are raising American-born children.

Also, just because the 9/11 attacks were committed by Islamists doesn't mean that the Muslims building the mosque are extremists. The trade center attacks were done by fundamentalist Muslims, not by Muslims who are trying to be part of a community.

If a Christain group had bombed the World Trade Center and if some other group of Christians wanted to build a church near there, no one would stop them because everyone would know that not all Christains are terriorists because they make up a large part of the world. The same should go for Muslims; Islam is the 2nd biggest world religion and there are mosques in every state in America. Plus there are probably more mosques in NY than in any other state. It shouldn't make too much of a difference if there's one down the street from ground zero.

An Islamic symbal to remind every breathing American that 9/11 was done by Muslims... every day.

And you can't see what a slap pin the face THAT is to almost every American.

[cdad]

Not only Christains aren't allowed in Mecca, a lot of Muslims aren't either. Either way, America is supposed to be a symbol of freedom of religion. We are a melting pot nation that doesn't exclude others and we should know better than not to exclude other religions from our community. Also, not all Muslims are unexepting of others- especially American Muslims. You are making generalizations of the whole religion by saying that Islam is unexcepting of others. The mosque my family belongs to allows anyone to come in- Christians, Jews, Hindus etc- and they even hold peace conferences. Obviously they want to be a part of the community and except the majority of the nation especially if they are raising American-born children.

Also, just because the 9/11 attacks were committed by Islamists doesn't mean that the Muslims building the mosque are extremists. The trade center attacks were done by fundamentalist Muslims, not by Muslims who are trying to be part of a community.

If a Christain group had bombed the World Trade Center and if some other group of Christians wanted to build a church near there, no one would stop them because everyone would know that not all Christains are terriorists because they make up a large part of the world. The same should go for Muslims; Islam is the 2nd biggest world religion and there are mosques in every state in America. Plus there are probably more mosques in NY than in any other state. It shouldn't make too much of a difference if there's one down the street from ground zero.

For one thing you're a confused person if you think that its freedom of religion when its about a zoning issue. The imam that wants to build the mosque already has one near that area already. Another thing is since your on this mode of thinking then why stop at any group wanting to build near ground zero right?? Well they have a pre existing greek orthodox church that was destroyed in the attatck and they wish to rebuild and are being prevented from doing so by being buried in red tape. Yet not a peep. Isn't that a bit discriminatory ?

Ref:

Greek Orthodox Church or Mosque: Ground Zero | WorldWideGreeks.com

[Wondergirl]

Really.....examples please....Foriegn Terrorism supporters have a "RIGHT" to build a Memorial to terrorists a stones thro=w from a site of Terrorism....but nobody has a right to protest against it.

They have a right to build, and you have a right to protest. Isn't that what you are doing right now? We aren't stopping you; we are simply disagreeing with you.

[Wondergirl]

The imam that wants to build the mosque already has one near that area already.

How close by is that mosque?

[cdad]

How close by is that mosque?

Rauf already has a mosque in lower Manhattan. Masjid al-Farah is about 12 blocks from ground zero,

Ref:

Imam Behind NYC Islamic Center Absent Amid Debate : NPR

[XOXOlove]

An Islamic symbal to remind every breathing American that 9/11 was done by Muslims.....every day.

And you can't see what a slap pin the face THAT is to almost every American.

Still, the trade attacks are not an Islamic symbol as a whole. The Taliban is like a fudamentalist cult; it's not like any other Islamic sect. I guess you would have personally know a Muslim to know that.
It's like if The People's Temple blew up a building and a Catholic Church was built in place of it. I mean know one would have a problem with that.

[Wondergirl]

Rauf already has a mosque in lower Manhattan. Masjid al-Farah is about 12 blocks from ground zero

How many Catholic churches are there within 12 blocks of Ground Zero?

[Wondergirl]

An Islamic symbal to remind every breathing American that 9/11 was done by Muslims

No, not "Muslims" -- fundamentalist Muslims. It's like comparing snakehandlers in the NC mountains to mainstream Baptists.

[cdad]

How many Catholic churches are there within 12 blocks of Ground Zero?

Looks like at most 2 but the one is an offshoort of the other. One is a church and the other a chapel. Which may be for outreach to homeless etc.

Not sure on that. It says in the shadows of the towers so that's a pretty big radius.



Ref:

St. Peter's Parish: Death and Resurrection at Ground Zero - September 2003 Issue of St. Anthony Messenger Magazine Online

[smoothy]

They have a right to build, and you have a right to protest. Isn't that what you are doing right now? We aren't stopping you; we are simply disagreeing with you.

You fail to see that the difference between a right and a privlege is...

They DON'T have a RIGHT to build there. A constitutional right can't be infringed upon casually and the that happens at ever step of the way in building anything... and the people building it are the people paying for it... and exactly who is couching up $100 million dollars has been kept secret thus far.

The "Right" to build something is no different than your "RIGHT" to drive a car. A priveledge is not a right... there are in reality two very different things.

So sorry, Iran doesn't have the right to build a terrorist memorial in Manhattan, neither Does saudi Arabia. And its Certainly NOT being paid for by Americans for all anyone can prove... Osama Bin Laden is paying for it. After all... prove its not him by disclosing the full list of where that money is really coming from.

[smoothy]

No, not "Muslims" -- fundamentalist Muslims. It's like comparing snakehandlers in the NC mountains to mainstream Baptists.

Muslims... they weren't Jews... they Weren't Christians... they weren't agnostics or Aetheists, they weren't Wicca... they were Muslim.

[Wondergirl]

You fail to see that the difference between a right and a privlege is... The "Right" to build something is no different than your "RIGHT" to drive a car. A priveledge is not a right... there are in reality two very different things.

The U.S. Constitution says they have a right to build it there. They have met all local zoning regulations and will conform to applicable building codes. Smoothy and Emily Post may not like it, but they do have the right. My neighbors built their McMansion next to my driveway. They followed all the zoning ordinances and building codes. I don't like it, but it was their right to build it. We could have bought the corner lot, but my husband said no.

A constitutional right can't be infringed upon casually

Thank you!

And its Certainly NOT being paid for by americansm for all anyone can prove

But you don't know who is paying for it.

Osama Bin Laden is paying for it.

I can see now why excon said goodbye.

[Synnen]

Besides, most of these records are not greatly private... College transcrips, Voting records...etc when he was in Illinoise...all of these SHOULD be public information. But of Course the Messiah is special and has something to hide NO other prior president had to hide. Not even the King of word Parsing Bill Clinton.

And Sorry...private citizens might have that right....not public officals in elected office.

I print college transcripts every day. EVERY day. Actually, I wish more people knew about the laws surrounding transcripts, because then I wouldn't get so many idiots yelling at me because I can't immediately email them their transcripts because they called me on the phone and asked me to.

Transcripts are VERY private. They are protected at LEAST as well as medical records, even if they are used for more things than medical records are.

Voting records ARE private--as they should be! I absolutely would NOT want someone to know how I have voted on anything. As a matter of fact, I don't tell people who I have voted for, or what propositions I have voted for, or who I am thinking about voting for. I will talk about issues I support, but my actual vote is PRIVATE, and I expect it to remain so.

And what basis do his transcripts or birth certificate or voting records have to do with anything? Anything he did as a private citizen SHOULD remain his own choice to reveal. Degrees, citizenship, and the fact that he is a registered voter can all be confirmed without violating his privacy. His votes AS a public official should be (and ARE) public. By this I mean if he voted as a representative of others, how he voted is public record. But his own private choices are HIS--and if we don't respect that in a president, how the HELL can you seriously expect it to be respected for anyone else?

PS--I don't like Obama as president at ALL. Every freaking thing the man has done has affected me, and usually for the worse. I hate the health care thing, I hate the flavored cigarettes thing, I hate how the economy has been handled. I still respect his rights as a citizen of this country, though.

[Synnen]

How many Catholic churches are there within 12 blocks of Ground Zero?

Six that I could find.

Plus a Baptist? Church. Not sure of the denomination on the last one I found.

[Wondergirl]

Six that I could find.

Plus a Baptist? church. Not sure of the denomination on the last one I found.

So one mosque that's already there is more than enough, apparently.