[QLP]

I think you need to sit and consider where the boundaries are in this relationship.

You keep talking about how she is your daughter and how uncomfortable you feel about the boyfiend's mother laying claim to her as though she is a possession. Having someone else want to make your daughter part of their family too isn't a threat, it's a lovely thing. I consider my daughter's boyfriend part of my family and his mum counts my daughter as part of hers. It doesn't mean we have lost our offspring but that they have gained even more people to love them. Surely that is a good thing.

You keep making suggestions and offering unsolicited advice to your daughter. I know you are doing this because you care and are worried for her but you need to step back and let her start making her own decisions, and yes her own mistakes at times too. Only give help and advice if it is asked for. I know several people have already said this to you but it really is important when negotiating the change in relationship when our children grow up. I have found it hard to do myself, and I freely confess that at first it caused some friction between me and mine but I very quickly realised it was time for me to stop the 'mothering' and trust them. We get on great now. Please do try this. It might feel really difficult at first but it is so worth it in the long run.

I know you don't approve of the boyfriend but we cannot choose who our adult children have in their lives. Maybe she is making a mistake, but all you can do is be there for her if she needs support when things go wrong. And just maybe she isn't and they will live happily ever after, only time will tell. The best thing you can do is give her the space to work it out for herself, or she might marry him just to prove you wrong!

Finally, and I'm sorry I don't know how to say this without being blunt - stop playing the martyr. You keep telling us about all the things you do for your daughter and how ungrateful she is. So stop doing them if you don't want to! It is your choice to do these things and if they are not bringing you the satisfaction you want then it is time to stop. Your daughter isn't holding a gun to your head. Start respecting yourself in this relationship and stop rolling over to give your daughter what you think she wants. Just maybe she will start to respect you too.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but you seem to have got yourself locked into a mindset where you think you have no choice but to do these things for your daughter and that the only solution to this problem is to keep bemoaning the bad behaviour from your daughter in the hope that this will make her change.

The most important thing I can remind you of is that the only person's behaviour we can directly change is our own. Look at what YOU can do differently. With luck the dynamics will change and things will get better for all of you, but the change has to start with YOUR behaviour.

You need to stop looking at what your daughter is doing wrong and start looking at where you can change. Right now. I do so hope you can do this and wish you well.

[LaurM]

YOU do not belong on here. Pet Expert ? Listen, with all these migraines I was lying down with my dog Molly and found a growth in her belly. I HOPE it's not Cancer. I have made an appointment with the Vet. YOU are Venomous as a SNAKE and know nothing. You and Mel Gibson and a LOT in common. You don't know ANYTHING and evidently didn't read what I wrote very well. I'm doing things all the time and my husband is the one who thinks I do too much. GOT IT! We went in the sweltering heat to scout a wedding location where I took video and wedding pictures. THAT is when the migraines started. I don't go looking for awards. I am DRIVEN to make people HAPPY, that's all. I WANT people to be happy. My father was an alcoholic and when you come from a dysfunctional family, you are always TRYING to do THAT. So don't try telling me what you THINK I am doing. Only "I" know WHERE it is COMING FROM, as I LIVED IT. HOW DARE YOU?? I've had a HARD LIFE. That includes walking in on my mother - who had a NOOSE AROUND HER NECK. Think you know me NOW? And what I'm ALL ABOUT ? I certainly LOVE my kids. They BOTH nearly DIED in a car accident in 1993. And whatever you think I am about - you know SQUAT. Shame on you for what you wrote. I would give my LIFE FOR THEM. Sorry I ever wrote on here...

[Jake2008]

LaurM,

Please show a little respect toward those that try to offer good advice.

There has been nothing said to you that has been worthy of any of the anger and hateful comments you have displayed.

After several attempts to get you to open up to the possibility that you contribute and create a lot of your misery, you don't like what you hear, so you attack those that offer advice in good faith.

I agree. You don't belong here.

[Alty]

YOU do not belong on here. Pet Expert ? Listen, with all these migraines I was lying down with my dog Molly and found a growth in her belly. I HOPE it's not Cancer. I have made an appointment with the Vet. YOU are Venomous as a SNAKE and know nothing. You and Mel Gibson and a LOT in common. You don't know ANYTHING and evidently didn't read what I wrote very well. I'm doing things all the time and my husband is the one who thinks I do too much. GOT IT! We went in the sweltering heat to scout a wedding location where I took video and wedding pictures. THAT is when the migraines started. I don't go looking for awards. I am DRIVEN to make people HAPPY, that's all. I WANT people to be happy. My father was an alcoholic and when you come from a dysfunctional family, you are always TRYING to do THAT. So don't try telling me what you THINK I am doing. Only "I" know WHERE it is COMING FROM, as I LIVED IT. HOW DARE YOU?? I've had a HARD LIFE. That includes walking in on my mother - who had a NOOSE AROUND HER NECK. Think you know me NOW? And what I'm ALL ABOUT ? I certainly LOVE my kids. They BOTH nearly DIED in a car accident in 1993. And whatever you think I am about - you know SQUAT. Shame on you for what you wrote. I would give my LIFE FOR THEM. Sorry I ever wrote on here...

Do you really think that you're the only one that's had a hard life? Want to trade horror stories, I don't think you'll be sitting there feeling sorry for yourself when I'm done.

I never said you don't love your kids, not once did I say that. You are smothering them, and you need help so you can stop.

Read your post. Every thing you mention, all the wonderful difficult things you do, are so minimal, why bring them up? You seem to think that taking pictures of you daughter, going to the wedding site with her, is the same thing as giving her your kidney. That's the way you make it sound. Read it, here it is;

I'm doing things all the time and my husband is the one who thinks I do too much. GOT IT! We went in the sweltering heat to scout a wedding location where I took video and wedding pictures. THAT is when the migraines started.

It sounds like you're blaming your daughter for the migraines. Don't you see that? If you hadn't gone you wouldn't be suffering. Is that honestly how you see it?

YOU are Venomous as a SNAKE and know nothing. You and Mel Gibson and a LOT in common.

I find this funny. You said shame on me for writing what I wrote, which I based on what you told us, but you, who really don't know anything about me, and dare to say that I should be ashamed because I judged you, wrote the above.

I don't think you're really here for advice, you want to be validated and you're upset because I don't think your daughter is the one with issues. No one wants to hear what others really think, most people just want people to agree with them. I could do that, I could pretend that the fact that your daughter wouldn't carry in a cord for you is the worst thing a child could to to a mother and you should continue to be angry about it for the rest of your life. I could say that the fact that you took pictures and showed them on your computer is worthy of a dozen roses, a thank you card, and praise for being such a wonderful human being. I could pat you on the back and tell you that you did your best in raising your child, but she's just ungrateful, cold, and doesn't understand all you do.

I'm sure you do things for your kids, but the examples of things you're angry about that you provided to us, are ridiculous. The reasons for your anger, most people wouldn't even give the incidents a second thought, but you gave them a life of their own and feel such anger because of them, it's not healthy, nor is it a reaction most people would have.

Obviously you cannot see what I see. I did read your posts very carefully, and I stand by the advice I gave.

It's just my opinion, which you solicited when you posted here. The title "Pets Expert" is just a title. The pets section is the one I most frequent, but it's far from the only thing I'm an expert in. No, I'm not a counselor, but I am smart enough to see that you need help dealing with your anger and the issues you have with your child, because the things you find earth shattering and hurtful, are nothing. I can only imagine how you would handle a serious event.

You can take my advice, seek counseling, follow through, perhaps get rid of all your anger and read what I said with an open mind, or you can believe what you do now, try your best to have a relationship with your child, and keep the anger with you, watch it grow.

I can only wish you luck, the rest is up to you.

[Wondergirl]

No, I'm not a counselor, but I am smart enough to see that you need help dealing with your anger and the issues you have with your child, because the things you find earth shattering and hurtful are nothing. I can only imagine how you would handle a serious event.

I AM a professional counselor and agree with Alty that your seeking counseling would be a good idea. There will be grandbabies arriving before you know it. Please work through this anger and heal the relationship with your daughter, so we don't read posts from your grandchildren in about twelve years. It's obvious you have a lot of love to give. There's a way to give it so you don't end up feeling disrespected and disappointed.

[QLP]

I know you cannot see it LaurM but all the people on here are genuinely trying to help you.

You may feel as though you are being judged but it is only that some of us are using a little tough love to try and get you to look at your own situation objectively. As yet we have not found a way sadly.

I know you feel you are not getting what you came here for so I am going to ask you a question. This is not to get at you. It is not sarcastic. It is a genuine open question that I hope you will consider for yourself.

What do you actually want?

Do you want us to offer you sympathy and agree that your daughter could be behaving better? We could do that, but short of making you feel better for a few minutes what would that actually achieve?

Do you want us to try and offer suggestions that will help you make the situation better? That is what people are trying to do.

Or is there something else?

What is it you want to happen? Both on here and in your life.
It is no good going over and over what the problem is. We do get it. But what do you actually want? If you don't want to answer that for us please try and do so for yourself.

We also understand about tough times. My father is an alcoholic and my mother was a schizophrenic. I had to save her life several times. I was often in a position where she could have taken mine, due to her illness, she came close. I'm lucky to be alive considering some of the things I did live through. Other people here have horror stories of their own. Not mine to share but believe me you are not alone in having to overcome adversity.

I decided, and I know I'm not alone here, that I wasn't prepared to remain a victim. I am ready to leave the past behind and take responsibility for the present. Are you?

There is help out there if you want it.

So. What do you want?

[LaurM]

It was "Altenweg" on page TWO I found VERY insulting. I won't be writing after this. You can kick someone else around. I just want you to know that I CAME here for help, as my daughter intends to get married, and I don't want give money to a wedding and see her crying a year or two later seeing it was a mistake. We can not afford to help out again. Because her boyfriend screwed around in college, his job sucks now. What is strange is that my daughter is an overachiever and this guy in college had "loser" written over him. Yet when she came home from studying abroad and seen how he goofed off, she had her own problems and didn't say anything at the time to him. She cared about the dream they were working towards - he didn't. She LOVES to travel overseas, as she did for studying in college... I think she might get restless when she can't do that once the I DOs are said and what her heart is burning to do because he is stuck with this low paying salary between $20 and $30,000. I only wrote on here because I am a good mother, my friends all tell me I am and my daughter should show the same respect I give her. I was looking forward to having a great son in law - this guy couldn't say "Thank You" from the beginning and never really blended in... I have bought clothes for him in college when I saw them on sale and got some in the same store for my daughter and son. I have made efforts. I have felt sorry at times for him, as his parents are idiots - they treat the other son better than they do him. And it's not right. He makes remarks to my daughter in front of us that are unkind - and he should keep them to himself and I talk to her about it. It gets me upset and she needs to speak to him not to do that when we're around. Well, she has yet to do it. No wonder then when he makes ill remarks I get upset and get worried. I just ask a request that he not do that around us - it goes nowhere. I was nice about it, and nothing more I can do... You all paint me as this TERRIBLE overbearing person. I am NOT that. This person my daughter is now engaged to has certainly sent up a lot of Red Flags. And as far as his Mother, that I should be GLAD that she loves my daughter so much ? That was rude to ask my daughter to ride in the car with them at the airport when she just came home from studying abroad. WE are her family, NOT the boyfriend and his mother. We all felt she was out of line here. My whole family who went to pick her up. And the Xmas card ? The one saying "But send her back" That wasn't funny. We live far from my daughter - 2 1/2 hrs. from her. Her future mother in law lives 15-20 away. Writing that, considering how often we see my daughter, was like gee, we just had her here and she's going to leave and then we get THIS in the mail? ". It hurt. And it was from someone that can pick up and see her anytime she wants. I can't. This past November, we helped my daughter and the boyfriend move into ANOTHER apartment. When it was all over, and his parents went to leave, the mother says before going out the door with the husband : " Thanks for helping US".... My husband and I both heard her do it again. The "us". It's like ALL 4 of them make one big happy family and we're just Outsiders from the Sticks. As my husband said, "It wasn't in HER place to thank us... ". THAT is why it was so weird....It IS like she has appropriated my daughter, so with her son included. the 4 of them ARE one big happy family. Unless the other son is home from college...he's their favorite. lol. My daughter didn't want anything to ruin her relationship with her boyfriend - I said whatever she needed to do then when the card came, but I sent his mother an email telling her my feelings were hurt and I thought she had crossed the line - they also tried to "buy" my daughter by paying for her end of the apartment in the beginning...When the mother said her "Thank you" upon leaving, I took my daughter aside and said, look, as I tried to be very graceful about it all, I know she's not going to change, and I"m not going to make a big deal out of this and write her or anything, just tell me that you see this... (that the mother was doing her crap again... it was soooo obvious) and like a little 5 yr. old Shirley Temple, she goes to me "No!". The airport parking lot, the Christmas Card, other things, and now THIS. It was time for the long drive home. The next morning I woke with a migraine and at 3 am the following morning, I was working on my laptop when my face started to tingle and then burn. It continued for another 24 hrs. after that. Turns out it was all part of the migraine I had gotten. It was like someone had thrown fuel on me and lit it. I wound up in the emergency room first, but the wait was too long and left. Later I went to the family dr. who gave me steroids. I went on the computer and figured out it was still a result from the migraine and took my migraine medication. It worked. Maybe no one on here understands... My hair stylist is around my age. She did my mother's hair and does my hair. She had done my daughter's hair before she moved away. I have told her everything as it happened. She can tell me how I feel with all this when I don't even SAY IT and DOES see that it isn't ME. And one other thing : after this wedding goes off, IF there are problems, and IF my daughter says WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY SOMETHING ? Cause you guys seem to think all I do is open my mouth. I DON'T. I'll tell her YOU DIDN'T WANT TO HEAR, MY DEAR. She'll probably get MAD at me for not SAYING ANYTHING then TOO. Don't bother writing again. I won't be coming back to READ IT.

[Wondergirl]

Don't bother writing again. I won't be coming back to READ IT.

Okay. All I will say is that I wish you the best.

***ADDED***Someone else posted this recently in a different thread: "I also really appreciate all these responses, its so nice to see such caring people out there willing to give there time to help others."

I'm truly sorry we weren't able to make a difference in YOUR life, LaurM.

[Alty]

I too can only wish you all the best.

We can only base our answers on the information we receive, and even after your last post, I still stand by what I said.

Sadly, it's often hardest to see ourselves. It's never easy to hear what people think, especially when it doesn't jive with how we see ourselves.

After almost 3 years on this site, I've found that the people that get the most angry about our advice are usually angry because they see that what we're saying rings true, but they're not ready to accept it.

Good luck to you and your daughter.

[QLP]

I too can only wish you all the best.

We can only base our answers on the information we receive, and even after your last post, I still stand by what I said.

Sadly, it's often hardest to see ourselves. It's never easy to hear what people think, especially when it doesn't jive with how we see ourselves.

After almost 3 years on this site, I've found that the people that get the most angry about our advice are usually angry because they see that what we're saying rings true, but they're not ready to accept it.

Good luck to you and your daughter.

Got to spread the rep but I agree, she just isn't ready to hear us right now. We tried.

To the OP, I too wish you and your daughter well, and if you ever see things differetly you know where to find us. Good luck.

[nadia.baseer.durrani]

Don't spend your retirement money on their wedding. I f she wants to be adult.. then let her be and let them afford it. Leave them alone or the situation will get worse. Let your daughter do the mistakes and then let her learn from them. I know its going to be hard but that is the only graceful way out for you. Or the things will be messed up further.