[smoothy]

You keep bringing up montreal.. Montreal is not the whole country of canada.

Montreal is part of Canada... NOT the USA. And its NOT the worst, or poorest city in Canada. I honestly have no idea who holds title to that distinction, though I am curious who does.

Yeah I do understand the animosity other parts of Canada may have with Quebec... yeah we did hear about them wanting to secede and all.

But hey... we don't think much of Camden , NJ but we are stuck with it too. Same with Sanfrancisco... most of the USA thinks its populated by fruits and loons... and until it slides into the Ocean its part of the USA. (I'm not holding my breath waiting for that to happen).

[tickle]

[QUOTE=smoothy;2302704)

While she was a citizen of Canada...she wasn't native born...and she was over 60, so not of any real value to the Canadian Goverments eyes.


[/QUOTE]

That's a hard statement to make. As soon as immigrants arrive in Canada, they are GIVEN HEALTHCARE BENEFITS even before they become citizens. I know this isn't your point, but smoothy, if she paid her taxes, whether she was an immigrant or not had nothing to do with real value. What the heck does that mean ? Are you saying because she was over 60, but wasn't born in Canada, then the government thought she was worthless? I don't think so.

Canada is a pretty wide country, smoothy, we have cities which are thousands of miles away from each other between Ontario and British Columbia, not all medical centres are furnished the right way or have proper funding. We are lucky in the eastern Provinces, which I think are the richest, to have state of the art hospitals, state of the art children's hospitals, well equipped cancer centres.

Before you start casting stones, why don't you stop readingthe propaganda and drivel and come up and explore these options yourself. Most of you can sit down there on your computers and site articles written by people not qualified to even talk about healthcare. They are a drop in the bucket.

tick

[smoothy]

Thats a hard statement to make. As soon as immigrants arrive in Canada, they are GIVEN HEALTHCARE BENEFITS even before they become citizens. I know this isnt your point, but smoothy, if she paid her taxes, whether or not she was an immigrant or not had nothing to do with real value. What the heck does that mean ? Are you saying because she was over 60, but wasnt born in Canada, then the government thought she was worthless? I dont think so.

Canada is a pretty wide country, smoothy, we have cities which are thousands of miles away from each other between Ontario and British Columbia, not all medical centres are furnished the right way or have proper funding. We are lucky in the eastern Provinces, which I think are the richest, to have state of the art hospitals, state of the art children's hospitals, well equipped cancer centres.

Before you start casting stones, why dont you stop readingthe propaganda and drivel and come up and explore these options yourself. Most of you can sit down there on your computers and site articles written by people not qualified to even talk about healthcare. They are a drop in the bucket.

tick

My point is when you have someone other than your doctor, deciding who gets what and if they even get it (because they will allow X number of procedures that year)... someone gets screwed. They prioratize who gets the limited resources and who gets screwed. And someone will when demand excedes ability to deliver. Which Obviously is the case if there is ever a waiting list.

Obviously an elderly immigrant housewife and widow is less important than a much younger Natural Born Canadian who has the right party affiliations.

That's how the world works... and Canada isn't exempt from it, and it does happen anyplace anything is rationed anywhere.

So my wife's aunt is now an Anti-Canadian propagandist?

Care to extablish a little proof of that? Because actually I know her in real life, and she has NO reason to lie or exagerite... its not in her nature. And if she wanted to leave Canada sho would... she does hold more than a Canadian Passport, just not an American one. She stays because her family is all there.

You like everyone else on this thread however I know only from this site. You could really be the Canadian Prime Minister in real life... or anyone else with an internet connection. Not a swipe... but on one hand, real person I know, other hand, someone on a computer telling me something different than people I know say as well as other sources who are NOT anti-Canadian.

And No... I am not Anti-Canadian.

[tickle]

.





So my wifes aunt is now an Anti-Canadian propagandist?

Care to extablish a little proof of that? Because actually I know her in real life, and she has NO reason to lie or exagerite...its not in her nature. And if she wanted to leave Canada sho would....she does hold more than a Canadian Passport, just not an American one. She stays because her family is all there.

.

So where did I say this ? Is that what you got out of what I said. You are putting words in my mouth that weren't there and turning it around to say that I think she is a propagandist? I don't ever hear words like that where I come from. She is younger then me. I am third generation Canadian. Sixty eight this year and working passed retirement. And she probably worked hard all her life too.So why would I say she was anything different in this world we live in then me?

Tick

[NeedKarma]

so where did I say this ? Is that what you got out of what I said. You are putting words in my mouth that werent there and turning it around

That's why that person is on my ignore list.

[tickle]

That's why that person is on my ignore list.

I think I might follow your suit. I have no idea why our system is of their concern, or why I am defending it.

Tick

[tomder55]

Conversely Canadians on this board are very free with their opinion /critique of our system... and that goes well beyond our healthcare .

[smoothy]

so where did I say this ? Is that what you got out of what I said. You are putting words in my mouth that werent there and turning it around to say that I think she is a propagandist? I dont ever hear words like that where I come from. She is younger then me. I am third generation Canadian. Sixty eight this year and working passed retirement. And she probably worked hard all her life too.So why would I say she was anything different in this world we live in then me?

tick

Last paragraph of post #102 by you. I got this information directly FROM my Canadian in-laws... so if that's reading propaganda, then that would make them propagandists by your own words. I trust what THEY say more than what any newspaper might write. Newspapers are highly biased to the reporters and editors beliefs, and do frequently fabricate stories to push an agenda.

The Washington Post, and New York Times have both been caught doing that... and for TV news... Dan Rather at CBS was caught doing it as well. No I can't provide Canadian equivalents... that news would rarely make it this far south.

Individuals are more direct and honest about their experience. Years of personal direct experience has shown me that.

And for those praising the Canadian health system... exactly how many of you have had experience with ANY system (and where was it) that doesn't establish quotas or rationing of any sort in recent years.

If I need something here... I never wait more than a few days for an appointment to get that test... and that's working around MY schedule, I could usually get those within 24 hours of my doctors request, if I was more flexible. And only because they don't do them in-house.

I do get to see a doctor the day I request it when I have any concerned.

I've had surgeries the day of the injury... and in less pressing cases within several days.

The only waiting lists we have in the USA is for organ transplants. Because obviously demand far excedes supply by donors. Not one artificially created by some accountants budget.


And no.. the insurance carrier does not say... we can only provide X number of that procedure this month... you have to go on a waiting list for next month. The lawyers and courts would have a field day if they did. And rightfully so.


Do I think OUR system is perfect? No, there is always room for improvement... but I think it is far better than the Canadian System, or the European system. I'd rather be in a hospital here than anywhere in Canada or Europe. Because I know I'd get treated right away rather than have to find out if they are allowed to do more of that procedure now or I have to wait to get it. Or that they will do it the cheaper way, rather than the better way (sometimes those are the same... others they are not).

There is very little chance I might ever end up in a Canadian hospital... but I spend enough time in Europe that risk is very real.

[JoeCanada76]

last paragraph of post #102 by you. I got this information directly from my canadian in-laws....so if thats reading propaganda, then that would make them propagandists by your own words. I trust what they say more than what any newspaper might write. Newspapers are highly biased to the reporters and editors beliefs, and do frequently fabricate stories to push an agenda.

The washington post, and new york times have both been caught doing that.....and for tv news....dan rather at cbs was caught doing it as well. No i can't provide canadian equivalents...that news would rarely make it this far south.

Individuals are more direct and honest about their experience. Years of personal direct experience has shown me that.

And for those praising the canadian health system.....exactly how many of you have had experience with any system (and where was it) that doesn't establish quotas or rationing of any sort in recent years. there is no rationing or quotas.

if i need something here....i never wait more than a few days for an appointment to get that test...and thats working around my schedule, i could usually get those within 24 hours of my doctors request, if i was more flexible. And only because they don't do them in-house.

I do get to see a doctor the day i request it when i have any concerned. me too, imagine that.

i've had surgeries the day of the injury...and in less pressing cases within several days.

The only waiting lists we have in the usa is for organ transplants. Because obviously demand far excedes supply by donors. Not one artificially created by some accountants budget. not artificially created here either.


and no..the insurance carrier does not say....we can only provide x number of that procedure this month...you have to go on a waiting list for next month. The lawyers and courts would have a field day if they did. And rightfully so. that does not happen here.


do i think our system is perfect? No, there is always room for improvement.....but i think it is far better than the canadian system, or the european system. I'd rather be in a hospital here than anywhere in canada or europe. Because i know i'd get treated right away rather than have to find out if they are allowed to do more of that procedure now or i have to wait to get it. Or that they will do it the cheaper way, rather than the better way (sometimes those are the same...others they are not). not true.

there is very little chance i might ever end up in a canadian hospital.....but i spend enough time in europe that risk is very real.

thank God i live in canada.

[smoothy]

thank God i live in canada.

And all I can Say is thank God I live in the USA.

As long as we are happy with what we got and where we live...

I have a GROUP of people that will contest your claims, My In-laws are a big family, all of whom grew up and have their own families and kids now as well. Who have remained in Canada, for now...

Funny how their experience just happens to match fairly closely what is reported about the system. OUTSIDE the Canadian media.

People in North Korea and Burma are Happy with what they have. Because that's all they know. No Canada is NOT equal to North Korea or Burma in any way, but if they can be happy, its not hard to understand how Canadians can be happy with their Health Care system, if that's all they have known.

And for those who DO like it and live there... great, you are happy with it... I'm happy for you. I however do not want to trade what I have for that.

[JoeCanada76]

It is not all I know. All my fathers side of the family live in the united states. They are all American. Go figure. Your family lives in Montreal. Canada is a lot bigger then Montreal. I have lived all across our Great country... our country is really big. So to compare the whole country because of one city... Well does not make sense. I can base all my stories on things I have heard from my own family living in the states. That is the same you do with your family based in canada.

Hmmm...

[smoothy]

It is not all I know. All my fathers side of the family live in the united states. They are all American. Go figure. Your family lives in Montreal. Canada is a lot bigger then Montreal. I have lived all across our Great country... our country is really big. So to compare the whole country because of one city... Well does not make sense. I can base all my stories on things I have heard from my own family living in the states. That is the same you do with your family based in canada.

Hmmm....

I will take the word of people I know personally, because I will know their character. And they aren't ALL in Montreal (but most are, and that isn't the only place they have lived.

And if there are no quotas, not waiting lists and the system is so absolutely perfect, WHY are so many Canadians spending their money for medial procedures and testing in the USA? Its not only the Wealthy.. and besides, why take the time, cost and effort to travel to another country if you can get the same care for free in your own? Wealthy people don't get that way by throwing all their money away on stupid things. I know several multimillionares. And while they buy nice stuff, "Tight" would be a good description of how they are with money.

They won't fly to Paris to pay three times as much for Levis jeans they can buy in town for a fraction. And they won't go to a different country to pay for something that's no better than they would get for free at home. Its not just poor people that are value concience. And I have no reason to believe Canadians are any different.

Like I said... You might be happy with your system, and that's what matters to you, I accept that. You don't have a lot of choice unless you are willing to go south and pay for it.

But quotas and waiting lists for many Canadians are well documented as they are in the UK system as well. Sure some people are happy and never get caught up in them... but quite a few do.

And here... being told sorry, our budget says you have to wait for "X"... means a lawsuit for that provider or insurance company is a done deal.

And do not confuse being denied a treatment that's not deamed needed or effective... I am talking procedures that are very real and needed and being told... you can have this... but you have to wait for "X" number of months before you can have it done.

And nobody has yet explained Why the Canadian Premier would pay to fly HERE for heart surgery if the Canadian system was so perfect? And that he would have been covered in, or should have been in any case.

Quotes from them...
Allowing his words to speak as loudly as his actions, Danny Williams, who is said to be recovering in Miami from his surgery (which according to this story took longer than expected), had explained his decision simply: "This was my heart, my choice and my health."

"I did not sign away my right to get the best possible health care for myself when I entered politics," Williams said.

Paraphrased from.. http://voices.washingtonpost.com/che...heart_sur.html

whom nobody can claim is a right wing newspaper.

[NeedKarma]

And if there are no quotas, not waiting lists and the system is so absolutely perfect, WHY are so many Canadians spending their money for medial procedures and testing in the USA?

a) no one ever said it was absolutely perfect, you said that. No system is perfect.
b) procedures done in the US are paid from our healthcare system, except for the ultra-rich who organize it themselves.

I am from Montreal, born there, spent 20 years there, parents and much family are still there. My mother had knee surgery and hip replacement in Mtl, I had no complaints in the way any of it was handled. Je peut même te parler en français si tu veux, je suis parfaitement bilingue.

[smoothy]

a) no one ever said it was absolutely perfect, you said that. No system is perfect.
b) procedures done in the US are paid from our healthcare system, except for the ultra-rich who organize it themselves.

I am from Montreal, born there, spent 20 years there, parents and much family are still there. My mother had knee surgery and hip replacement in Mtl, I had no complaints in the way any of it was handled. Je peut même te parler en français si tu veux, je suis parfaitement bilingue.

And as you quoated in (a) I'm not claiming ours is perfect either... but quotas,, when issued, on ANYTHING, ALWAYS have a way of screwing the people who are NOT connected, while those with the right friends avoid them. That's a universal truth.

(b) Doctors HERE aren't being paid from the Canadian system. I called a friend in upstate New York and they asked their doctor. Its cash and carry.



And yes... I can still read enough French to know what you said... even if I've forgotten most of it over the years since I last used it. If I studied it a bit and got my proficiency back to at least conversational level... I could add that to the langauges I understand well. Which is more than one right now, depending on your definition of proficient... can be three, I'm fluent in Italian... while I can't respond in good spanish.. I do undertand spanish depending on the dialect and origin of the speaker, Understand written spanish fairly well, and get just enough Portuguese to get the drift of a coversation most times... Used to be fluent in french but didn't use it for over 25 years and forgot most of it. Honestly not sure how much I forgot and how much I remember of the French.


Not related to the Canadian system... but the lawmakers here so gung ho to ram this down our throats don't think much of it themselves... because they ALL exempted themselves from having to have it. THAT speaks volumes

[tickle]

a). Je peut même te parler en français si tu veux, je suis parfaitement bilingue.

Well, I guess that threw a small wrench into the mix. Lets see how he replies to this one. The only time I can see what he posted is when someone quotes him. That's fine with me !

Tick

[tomder55]

I speak English and American

[JoeCanada76]

English and American, hmmm. I thought it was English and Spanish in the States. Nice try.

Well anyway, way off topic. Goodnight folks.

Done with the health care debate good luck to my family in the States and all the americans.

[smoothy]

well, I guess that threw a small wrench into the mix. Lets see how he replies to this one. The only time I can see what he posted is when someone quotes him. Thats fine with me !

tick

I consider the iggy bin to be for people not mature enough to grasp the concept their opinion isn't the only valid one.

I have nobody on ignore, never have and never will.

What is it you see young children do... "la la la..I can't hear you" with fingers in their ears? The iggy bin is the internet equivalent of doing that.