[tomder55]

Just noticed... we have another Wolverine here!!

[JoeCanada76]

I do not think anybody can continue any discussions. In their eyes they know it all. I could say more but it is all self explanatory.

[450donn]

It astounds me how the Canadians that frequent this forum defend their health care system. Since I am not Canadian (thank goodness) I cannot comment except from what I have heard first hand from Canadians that I worked with over the years. In the large cities the system works relatively well albeit slow at times for tests or procedures that we up till now have considered routine. The problem comes when you get to the small towns in the provinces of the west. Health care has been nearly non existent. Clinics are open maybe one or two days a week because of the lack of doctors and nurses. If you need a simple surgery you must go to one of the major cities where you are placed on a waiting list. Again, this is not my opinion, but words spoken by Canadians about their system. Sadly Nobama and congress is forcing us into this sort of rationing system that will place those of us over the age of 60 toward the bottom of the list for any surgery because we are not as productive as people under 40. Is that a better system than one in which we are responsible for paying for our own health care out of our own pocket? That debate will rage on for a long time, With everyone having an opinion on it. But is sure is fun watching the fight.

[JoeCanada76]

The problem comes when you get to the small towns in the provinces of the west. Health care has been nearly non existent. Clinics are open maybe one or two days a week because of the lack of doctors and nurses. If you need a simple surgery you must go to one of the major cities where you are placed on a waiting list. Again, this is not my opinion, but words spoken by Canadians about their system.

That is simply untrue. I live in a very small rural area and the health care is astounding. Simple surgery does not take long. Tests do not take long. There is no lack of doctors here. Clinics are open all week, 5 days a week. Yes, it is only your opinion. I am a Canadian speaking the truth about my experience. I am out in the west and the care is a lot better here. I have lived all across canada from the far east coast, to central canada to the west coast.

Your completely wrong. By the way I am glad and happy not to be American myself.

[inthebox]

I guess Canada may be looking at healthcare reform also:

http://www.cma.ca/multimedia/CMA/Con...get2010_en.pdf

The poll, conducted for the CMA by Ipsos Reid, asked Canadians if they agreed or disagreed that health care would eclipse other public spending priorities. Results found that 59% of respondents said they would. When pressed as to how the sustainability crunch in health care spending should be addressed, most (91%) said making the health care system more efficient and effective was the best way to slow down growing health care costs. Two-thirds (66%) said rewards and penalties to encourage healthy living could help slow down growing health costs.

G&P

[JoeCanada76]

Well that is a poll, where was it conducted? How many people took part? Etc. Etc. Sorry this Canadian and many others do not want to adapt to an American style system. We want to continue with the system we have here. Simple.

[inthebox]

By CMA; Canadian doctors. I would assume they know what they are talking about when it comes to Canadian healthcare. No system is perfect: healthcare costs are rising in Canada as well as here in the US; despite the differences in the way healthcare is delivered.



G&P

[speechlesstx]

Well that is a poll, where was it conducted? How many people took part? Etc. Etc. Sorry this Canadian and many others do not want to adapt to an American style system. We want to continue with the system we have here. Simple.

I know, NK says it all the time. It still doesn't account for the number of Canadians seeking care here and the growth of private care facilities in Canada which I've documented here a number of times. Apparently a lot of Canadians aren't as enamored with it as you and NK.

[NeedKarma]

I don't understand why you have a need to convince us that we should be unhappy with our healthcare system. Are you that bored? Can't stand to see someone happy?

[speechlesstx]

I don't know about anyone else but I'm happy that you're happy... I've said it before. Why are you trying to convince us you're all happy when the evidence says otherwise?

[NeedKarma]

I don't see evidence of the evidence.

[speechlesstx]

You're pretty good at searching my posts, find it. It's there.

[NeedKarma]

Your job seems to be to find all the unhappy people in the world and all the lunatics in order to prove some point. The fact is that if some politician here were to run on the platform of privatizing healthcare he/she wouldn't get very far, there would be a serious lack of support.

[speechlesstx]

NK, I’m not interested in playing your games, I said I’m happy you’re happy and I mean it. In fact, I couldn’t care less what Canada does with their health care system. Like most Americans I just don’t want ours to be like yours. It’s not my problem that you’re overly sensitive to having it’s shortcomings pointed out as an example of what we don’t want.

[smoothy]

That is simply untrue. I live in a very small rural area and the health care is astounding. Simple surgery does not take long. Tests do not take long. There is no lack of doctors here. Clinics are open all week, 5 days a week. Yes, it is only your opinion. I am a Canadian speaking the truth about my experience. I am out in the west and the care is a lot better here. I have lived all across canada from the far east coast, to central canada to the west coast.

Your completely wrong. By the way I am glad and happy not to be American myself.

That's not what my inlaws in Montreal tell me... and that's not a backwater city they live IN Montreal, not a suburb. WHen my wife's aunt needed surgery for a rather bad case of diverticulitis... she had to wait 6 months to have it. In the USA if you need it, you get it, within days when its elective... immediately when its serious.

Canadians might be used to waiting in line for stuff when they are sick... we here in the USA have learned that's neither desired or acceptable. You only HAVE to wait when you have an inefficient system that can't keep up with need or demand.

And my in-laws in Canada number 12, in 4 different families. I'm not hearing this from one idividual, but from all of them.

[excon]

Hello again, smoothy:

I'm sure there's rationing of health care in Canada. But, why do you think there ISN'T health care rationing here? We DO, of course, ration health care. Our rationing is based on one's ability to pay, whereas Canada's rationing is based on one's ability to wait.

At least in Canada, someone is seen by a doctor eventually. Here, if you don't have any money, you DON'T see a doctor. Our system is fine if you have money. It's not so fine if you don't.

Now, you can argue that our system of rationing is better because it's based on capitalism, the free market, and the right stuff. But, to put down the Canadians because they ration AT ALL, is the proverbial pot calling the kettle black.

excon

[speechlesstx]

Here, if you don't have any money, you DON'T see a doctor.

That, is a bald-faced lie.

[excon]

That, is a bald-faced lie.

Hello again, Steve:

Chill out dude. I may mis speak, sometimes, but I ain't no liar. You're right. A poor person can see a doctor in the emergency room. I should have been more precise and said that if you're poor, you don't get health care.

Now THAT ain't no lie.

excon

[smoothy]

Hello again, smoothy:

I'm sure there's rationing of health care in Canada. But, why do you think there ISN'T health care rationing here? We DO, of course, ration health care. Our rationing is based on one's ability to pay, whereas Canada's rationing is based on one's ability to wait.

At least in Canada, someone is seen by a doctor eventually. Here, if you don't have any money, you DON'T see a doctor. Our system is fine if you have money. It's not so fine if you don't.

Now, you can argue that our system of rationing is better because it's based on capitalism, the free market, and the right stuff. But, to put down the Canadians because they ration AT ALL, is the proverbial pot calling the kettle black.

excon

WHO rations health care here? Don't tell me I don't get mine rationed because I'm white...

Now You made a statement YOU have to prove... because its patently False... and it's a talking point the left uses all the time.

YOU said " Here, if you don't have any money, you DON'T see a doctor. " which is total Bullsh*t. Emergency rooms are not and have not been allowed to turn away people for lack of insurance or money, PROVE otherwise.

If you have a serious illness... "eventually" isn't going to cut it.

Cancer, heart attack... etc... there are a LOT of situations "Eventually" isn't acceptable for.

Canadians might be fine with dying for the "greater good" of a socialist system. I'm not, nor are MOST Americans. Those who like the Canadian system so much are welcome to move there to get it... they however lose any "right of return" once they find out reality is not what is advertised. Many Canadians never knew another system or remember a different one. Of course THEY won't see the problem, because they don't know a better system to compare to.

[speechlesstx]

Chill out dude. I may mis speak, sometimes, but I ain't no liar. You're right. A poor person can see a doctor in the emergency room. I should have been more precise and said that if you're poor, you don't get health care.

Now THAT ain't no lie.

Still not true and you know it. You forget I have first hand experience with my adult daughter who didn't have a penny when she was diagnosed with AIDS. You don't get any poorer than that and she has always had health care - including dental - since. I don't know about in California where she is now, but she had first rate doctors here.