[twinkiedooter]

One can only hope a very agressive form of crotch cancer afflicts everyone who voted for Socilized healthcare.

And yeah I do mean that....I didn't make the sacrificed to go to college, and no I got NO help from the government, and my family was too poor to help, so some Blowhard from Chicago can steal MY hard earned money to subsidize a inner city High School dropouts healthcare. Because heaven forbid...THEY make any sacrifices to get their own.

I second that, Smoothy. Let all those jerks who voted for the socialized medicine or "health care" get aggressive crotch cancer and have their little dingys fall off. What a cute euphamism the word health care is for something truly despicable.

OR better yet

VOTE out all those gutless, dingyless, spineless bastar*s in November who voted for that piece of legislation. Their day of reckoning is coming. I sure hope they enjoy living like the rest of the "astroturf" they disdained by voting for this phoney coverup of the starting of the takeover of a Free America.

[smoothy]

Hello again, smoothy:

So, you don't believe we should pool together to hire inspectors to check out our meat and stuff. You don't think we should pool (socialize), our fire and police protection??? You wanna pay for it yourself, huh? You mentioned kids above. Do you pay for your kids education, or do you let the government do it?

Do you see where I'm going here?? Nahhh, you don't.

excon

I believe in a head tax... you want 10 kids... you pay for 10 kids. Do I think that's going to go anyplace? No... but that's fair... people would pay a fairer share of the services they consume. The current method is grossly unfair.

Where do they Pool the police and fire departments? Not where I live. And how are FDA inspectors considered socialist?

[smoothy]

I second that, Smoothy. Let all those jerks who voted for the socialized medicine or "health care" get aggressive crotch cancer and have their little dingys fall off. What a cute euphamism the word health care is for something truly despicable.

OR better yet

VOTE out all those gutless, dingyless, spineless bastar*s in November who voted for that piece of legislation. Their day of reckoning is coming. I sure hope they enjoy living like the rest of the "astroturf" they disdained by voting for this phoney coverup of the starting of the takeover of a Free America.

Exactly... as an American you are entitled to the PURSUIT of the American dream... what you are not entitled to is to have everything handed to you. Which of course means it was taken from someone else who actually earned it first before it was given to someone who didn't earn it at all.

That's exactly where many immigrants have a better grasp of what it is to be American than many people who were born and raised here.

[excon]

Where do they Pool the police and fire departments? Not where I live. And how are FDA inspectors considered socialist?

Hello again, smoothy:

So, when it's socialism you LIKE, you don't want to call it socialism. I understand. Really, I do.

excon

[smoothy]

Hello again, smoothy:

So, when it's socialism you LIKE, you don't wanna call it socialism. I understand. Really, I do.

excon

You didn't answer my question... exactly where do they "Pool" police and fire departments? That doesn't happen in my part of the country. Those are local services paid for by local taxes... there is nothing socialized about them. Socialism would have me paying for police halfway across the country instead of my own because THEY aren't paying for their own.

And exactly how are FDA inspectors "socialism"? I'm asking because I don't see how those equate to socialism.

[tomder55]

I have stated elsewhere that the Police and Fire Depts are local and not national . But if they were ,the Constitution provides for the "common defense" .

FDA was established on a constitutional concept that is often abused by the Federal Government . None-the-less,there is a mandate to regulate interstate commerce in the constitution.

[excon]

Those are local services paid for by local taxes.....there is nothing socialized about them.

And exactly how are FDA inspectors "socialism"? I'm asking because I don't see how those equate to socialism.

Hello again, smoothy:

If your police WEREN'T socialized, when you had a robbery, you'd call up your private police force if you could afford 'em. We had 'em, once. They were called vigilantes.. But, we decided to spread the risk (socialize it), and hire a police force that worked for ALL of us. THAT is quintessential socialism. The fact that they're local, and not national, doesn't change a thing.

If the meat inspectors WEREN'T socialized, you'd buy your meat where you had your own PRIVATE inspectors checking out the stuff. That, or you'd be taking your chances.. But, we as a society decided to SOCIALIZE meat inspection, and put the government in charge of it.

It's socialism, plain and simple. And, you LIKE it, so you don't want to call it socialism.

excon

[smoothy]

Hello again, smoothy:

If your police WEREN'T socialized, when you had a robbery, you'd call up your private police force if you could afford 'em. We had 'em, once. They were called vigilantes.. But, we decided to spread the risk (socialize it), and hire a police force that worked for ALL of us. THAT is quintessential socialism. The fact that they're local, and not national, doesn't change a thing.

If the meat inspectors WEREN'T socialized, you'd buy your meat where you had your own PRIVATE inspectors checking out the stuff. That, or you'd be taking your chances.. But, we as a society decided to SOCIALIZE meat inspection, and put the government in charge of it.

It's socialism, plain and simple. And, you LIKE it, so you don't wanna call it socialism.

excon

That's not how it works... Local governments established their own police force for its residents... the residents pay for them in their own taxes. Not all localities may do this. And the juridiction of these police are limited to the town or citiy limits. That's not socialism.

FDA inspectors are not soicalized. They exist to verify that food which does cross state lines complies with regulations pertaining to clearliness etc. States can only do that within their own state boundries...

Now if the Government took over all food production... THAT would be socialism.

Except if you live in California... where they believe the world rotates around them and can dictate to everyone else... but that doesn't give them any legal status to do so.

[excon]

Thats not how it works.....

Hello again, smoothy:

It's EXACTLY how it works. Socialism is an idea. It's got nothing to do with boundary's. It got to do with people pooling (socializing) risk.

But if they were ,the Constitution provides for the "common defense" .... None-the-less,there is a mandate to regulate interstate commerce in the constitution.

Hello tom:

I didn't say socialism is unconstitutional.

Plus, see what I said about boundary's to smoothy.

excon

[smoothy]

Hello again, smoothy:

It's EXACTLY how it works. Socialism is an idea. It's got nothing to do with boundary's. It got to do with people pooling (socializing) risk.
Hello tom:

I didn't say socialism is unconstitutional.

Plus, see what I said about boundary's to smoothy.

excon

I still don't see how you equate anything Federal to socialism? Because there is a difference.

Now if the Feds came in established new ones and said... this is the Police... this is the Fire Dept... we run them, and nobody else can and all others are now illegal.

Now That's socialism.

[excon]

Now if the Feds came in established new ones and said...

Hello again, smoothy:

You still think socialism has to do with boundary's or size. It doesn't. It's an IDEA that can be put to work on a small scale or a larger one.

Here what wikkipedia says is socialism:

"Socialism refers to the various theories of economic organization which advocate either public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources."

Isn't that exactly what we do with our cops and firemen? Don't we publicly own the police and fire department "resources"? Don't we collectively, "administer the means of production and allocation of those resources"?

excon

[smoothy]

Hello again, smoothy:

You still think socialism has to do with boundary's or size. It doesn't. It's an IDEA that can be put to work on a small scale or a larger one.

Here what wikkipedia says is socialism:

"Socialism refers to the various theories of economic organization which advocate either public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources."

Isn't that exactly what we do with our cops and firemen? Don't we publicly own the police and fire department "resources"? Don't we collectively, "administer the means of production and allocation of those resources"?

excon

Well, Wikipedia isn't always right about everything.

I do see the point you are trying to make now... I might not agree with it. But I at least can see where your argument is coming from.

[Wondergirl]

Well, Wikipedia isn't always right about everything.

You want other documentation that Wikipedia is correct with its explanation? I can quote you the same from an encyclopedia. Will you accept the explanation from an encyclopedia? How about a dictionary?

P.S. "Socialism." Oxford English Dictionary. "1. A theory or policy of social organisation which aims at or advocates the ownership and control of the means of production, capital, land, property, etc., by the community as a whole, and their administration or distribution in the interests of all people."

[excon]

I do see the point you are trying to make now.....I might not agree with it. But I at least can see where your argument is coming from.

Hello again, smoothy:

All I'm saying, is that we're FINE with SOME socialism. I'm a libertarian. I'm a capitalist. I do believe, however, that the clause in the Preamble which says "to promote the general welfare and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves" means that it's incumbent upon the government to provide a safety net.

Now I agree that I'm making that up. But, no more than you are when you think you're entitled to a "safety net" known as law enforcement. Now we can discuss how broad a safety net it should be, or whether there should be one at all. Clearly, we believe that, as a society, we should at the minimum, provide a safety net that includes protection against fire and crime. Personally, I'm fine with spreading the safety net to old people so that they shouldn't have to live in the street, even IF they were less than stellar investors.. I'm also fine with providing them health care too. In fact, I'm fine providing everybody with health care.

I don't think that makes me a socialist, and more than your thinking that fire protection should be afforded to you does. I do NOT believe the government should "take over" ANY industry. This law certainly isn't a "take over" as the noise machine says. It doesn't portend any future socialistic activity to me either.

excon

[Kitkat22]

Mr. Bush left this country in a mess! He lied to the people about WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION in order to validate his going into Iraq. Okay! I voted for him so I can gripe! When Saddam was captured he should have pulled out of Iraq and focused on Afghanistan and the true culprit OSAMA BIN LADEN.

As the mother of a son who has been in Iraq and Afghanistan more than a few times I think Bush dropped the ball and listened too much to Donald Rumsfeld who in my opinion knew nothing about anything. And Bush was a puppet his strings being pulled by the great "HONEST" Cheney. That was sarcasm by the way the "Honest" word.

I think McCain should have been elected at least he has the experience.
Obama is like all the former presidents, he is promising things, he cannot deliver. Place the blame on the right person. I worry about all the young men and women who have lost their lives. I support my son and all the military who are in harms way! I am an American and even with her flaws I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.

Bush did the right thing by going into Afghanistan after what they did on 9/11 but I question his reasons for Iraq. This was once a nation based on truth and honesty ,under God, it's not that anymore. I agree with Smoothy about our schools. When corporal punishment was taken out of the schools they have become almost frightning.

Kids walking into schools with guns, killing innocent children. No prayer. No mention of God, no way a teacher can make a child behave and if you do take away recess or give them a note to take home, all hades breaks loose cause mommy and daddy don't want their sweet little angel being deprived of a privilege.


When I was in school, this is what my parents said, "if you get a paddling in school, you'll get another one when you get home". We grew up respecting our teachers and our parents. I'm stating an opinion and I know most of you will not agree with on what I have said. Thanks EX-Con for giving me a chance to vent.

[Wondergirl]

Thats not how it works

Yes, it is. Do you pay your own mail carrier who delivers only to your house? What are the names of your personal fireman and policeman?

I'm a librarian but am not assigned to serve only one individual or family. I work in a public library that buys new books and DVDs and video games and lots of other library materials and also pays for a staff, maintenance on a building, and improvements/repairs to that building. The money comes from property taxes collected from property owners in a community. Do you have a library card?

[excon]

I'm stating an opinion and I know most of you will not agree with on what I have said. Thanks EX-Con for giving me a chance to vent.

Hello K

You're welcome.. But, that's what this board is - a place for you to state your opinion. Who cares if somebody agrees with you or not?

excon

[smoothy]

Mr. Bush left this country in a mess! He lied to the people about WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION in order to validate his going into Iraq. Okay! I voted for him so I can gripe! When Saddam was captured he should have pulled out of Iraq and focused on Afghanistan and the true culprit OSAMA BIN LADEN.

As the mother of a son who has been in Iraq and Afghanistan more than a few times I think Bush dropped the ball and listened to much to Donald Rumsfeld who in my opinion knew nothing about anything. And Bush was a puppet his strings being pulled by the great "HONEST" Cheney. That was sarcasm by the way the "Honest" word.

I think McCain should have been elected at least he has the experience.
Obama is like all the former presidents, he is promising things, he cannot deliver. Place the blame on the right person. I worry about all the young men and women who have lost their lives. I support my son and all the military who are in harms way! I am an American and even with her flaws I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.

Bush did the right thing by going into Afghanistan after what they did on 9/11 but I question his reasons for Iraq. This was once a nation based on truth and honesty ,under God, it's not that anymore. I agree with Smoothy about our schools. When corporal punishment was taken out of the schools they have become almost frightning.

Kids walking into schools with guns, killing innocent children. No prayer. no mention of God, no way a teacher can make a child behave and if you do take away recess or give them a note to take home, all hades breaks loose cause mommy and daddy don't want their sweet little angel being deprived of a privilage.


When i was in school, this is what my parents said, "if you get a paddling in school, you'll get another one when you get home". We grew up respecting our teachers and our parents. I'm stating an opinion and I know most of you will not agree with on what I have said. Thanks EX-Con for giving me a chance to vent.

Really... you should talk to Canada who processed several hundred metric tons of Yellowcake Uranium taken out of Iraq. Right.. the mainstream news avoided that one because it proved them wrong.

Besides... Obama, Bill Clinton, John Kerry... and everyone else that's been harping that tune saw the same evidence and same briefings Bush did and agreed ON Record... and on video, yeah I've heard their voices saying it too.

So the entire Demcrat Party are liars too, they all agreed at the time. Lets hear it... you can't blame one person and give a pass to everyone else that had the SAME briefings. ANd it wasn't just the USA... other European countries did too.

I agree.. about the kids lacking any discipline too.

If I got it at school I got it at home too. And the parents at least share the blame in that... they allow their little monsters to do whatever they want, whenever they want. I couldn't be a teacher... I'd be fired for beating the hell of the first smartazz to get cocky with me in the classroom. I have no tollerance for kids who never learned respect at home.

McCain did at least have experience... unlike Beezlebub... who never did an honest days work his entire life.

Lot about McCain I didn't like... but at least the man had the balls to be honest about who he was and what he stood for. Like him or hate him, you had to respect him... but no... Acorn got enough numbers fudged to get a man elected who needs a teleprompter to say more than 5 words without putting his foot in his mouth and who likely hasn't been honest once in his adult life.


I don't like or respect a person who #1 feels an obsession to be on TV every freaking day... and #2 rarely opens his mouth without reading what he has to say off a teleprompter. Why, I think we know why. He can't, he comes across as a bumling fool from the Chicago projects if he doesn't rely on someone else's words.

[Kitkat22]

Hello K

You're welcome.. But, that's what this board is - a place for you to state your opinion. Who cares if somebody agrees with you or not?

excon

Thanks for clearing that up and again thank you for letting me vent.:)

[Wondergirl]

I do believe, however, that the clause in the Preamble which says "to promote the general welfare and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves" means that it's incumbent upon the government to provide a safety net.

I've been paying for public school education since 1972, but my own kids have never attended a public school. In fact, now that my kids are adults, and I'm old and sick, I'm still paying for public education. Does somebody owe me a refund?