Check out some similar questions!

giggles42 · Dec 26, 2009, 06:10 PM

If you rent an illegal apartment on Long Island and the landlords made you sign a lease, is the lease legal?

ballengerb1 · Dec 26, 2009, 06:26 PM

Nope, but tell me about the details that make this an illegal apartment, is it a basement or what?

Fr_Chuck · Dec 26, 2009, 06:38 PM

No there is legal lease

ScottGem · Dec 26, 2009, 07:11 PM

Actually Long Island is kind of weird on this issue. An apartment on Long Island may be illegal for a few reasons. Usually its because the property is not zoned for rentals or the aaprtment hasn't been approved by local housing dept.

The odd part here is generally a lease IS valid, but the landlord can be fined for renting space illegally. More the IRS may get involved if the landlord hasn't properly reported the income. What also can happen is the housing dept will force the tenant to move because the apt is illegal.

So, generally its neither in the tenant's or landlord's best interests to go to court to enforce a lease.

But I've seen courts require that tenant's pay what they agreed to pay, while at the same time forcing them to vacate.

ballengerb1 · Dec 27, 2009, 10:03 AM

That is weird. How can the courts uphold a contract on a venture that is illegal? It's like a guy agrees to buy pot for $50 and then refuses to pay. Would the courts force him to pay the dealer as they lock up the dealer, weird.

ScottGem · Dec 27, 2009, 02:50 PM

Not a good example, because I doubt if a pot dealer would put anything in writing.

But a tenant signing a lease is entering into a deal with good faith. They are also getting value for the money they pay. So the tenant is not necessarily a victim here. The victim is the municipality that has rules that govern rentals. The landlord is cheating the municipality because the tenant is using municipal services without getting tax income to pay for them. They are the victims here.

If the tenant is getting the services provided in the lease then the lease would generally be deemed valid.

Alty · Dec 27, 2009, 02:54 PM

Okay, pet expert here, but I have a question. Don't laugh.

If the tenant knows that the apartment is legal and signs a lease, doesn't that also enter into play?

After all, obviously the OP knows, or assumes, that the place he's renting isn't legal to rent, so isn't he/she condoning illegal behavior?

I'll go back to my corner now. :)

ScottGem · Dec 27, 2009, 03:01 PM

Yes, if it could be proven that the tenant knew the rental was not legal, its possible a judge would throw out the lease and not allow either party to enforce it.

LisaB4657 · Dec 27, 2009, 03:18 PM

If the tenant moved out and broke the lease, and the landlord sued, I'm not so sure that a judge wouldn't throw out the case. When the tenant signs the lease they are promising to pay rent in return for a place to live. When the landlord signs the lease they are promising to provide the tenant with a place to live in return for payment of rent. If the landlord is not able to provide the tenant with a place to live because it is an illegal apartment then the landlord is in default and isn't entitled to enforce the terms of the lease.

So In my opinion the lease is legal but unenforceable. As long as the tenant pays rent for the period that they actually lived there then the landlord can't go after them for anything more.

ScottGem · Dec 27, 2009, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by LisaB4657

So IMHO the lease is legal but unenforceable. .

Yes, exactly. Would an illegal landlord risk having the local housing dept know they were illegally renting to enforce a lease? That wouldn't be very smart. Would a tenant risk losing their lodgings by reporting the landlord? Again, not a smart move. Even if the tenant can prove the landlord violated the lease, the building dept might force the tenant to vacate the illegal apartment.

But I've seen it happen both ways. Long Island is so desperate for housing, that courts make some weird rulings. I've heard of cases where judges upheld the leases and the landlords were fined and required to bring the apartment up to code and make them legal rather then force the apartment to be emptied.

ballengerb1 · Dec 27, 2009, 09:04 PM

Judges can and do make some unusual rulings but my original thinking was this was not a legal lease since you can't lease something that legally can't be leased. The OP never stated if he knew it was illegal when he signed. The LL can't promise to provide something the laws says he can't provide. No lawyer here but I still think the lease is not valid.

ScottGem · Dec 28, 2009, 05:42 AM

Originally Posted by ballengerb1

No lawyer here but I still think the lease is not valid.

The problem here is your definitiuon of illegal. As I said earlier there are various reasons a rental may be illegal. So it is possible for the landlord to provide lodgings, thereby creating a contract, even when the lodgings are not legal according to local statute.