[phlanx]

The way war is fought has changed as it enevitably does, and I think what we are most afraid off is having a situtaion where another hitler wants to invade countries and subject people to ethnic cleanising

I always love the spanish armada story - against a crecent formation it was very difficult to beat, so we sent out burning ships to set fire their leading ships and scatter their fleet

Can you ever see a battle like that happening today?

The seas are controlled by traditionally us and yourselves, and the aussies in the southern hempisphere, I really don't see the point in having upteen submarines etc when we can work together for the better

[tomder55]

The seas are controlled by traditionally us and yourselves, and the aussies in the southern hempisphere, I really don't see the point in having upteen submarines etc when we can work together for the better

I beg to differ . The Chinese are rapidly developing their blue water navy and it will not be long before they can use it to carve out a sphere of hegenomy. Don't discount the value of influence projection by Navies. That is not going to change anytime soon.

[ETWolverine]

Eastern Europe is now part of the EU

I find it interesting the way Americans view Russia, Europeans dont see russia as part of its iterest, the eastern blocks - of which I dont think people understand what I mean by that but is a recognised term within europe, are running at full speed away from the russians

So let me see if I understand you correctly.

You want the USA to become part of the EU and you want it to conform with EU regulations and rules because you believe that this country, thousands of miles outside Europe, has its economic and political interests within the EU.

But you DON'T want Russia, a country that exists within Europe proper, to be part of the EU because its economic and political interests differ from yours.

Am I getting that right?

Does that dichotomy make any sort of sense to anyone else here?

Elliot

[phlanx]

Morning Elliot

Can you tell where I said the USA should be part of the EU?

Show me where I said the US should conform to all models of the EU, I did say if you want to supply a product to the EU market you have to conform to its regs - is that concept lost on you? Or do you think NTSC tvs work in europe?

Nope you not getting it right, more trying to put words on my keyboard :)

[phlanx]

I beg to differ . The Chinese are rapidly developing their blue water navy and it will not be long before they can use it to carve out a sphere of hegenomy. Don't discount the value of influence projection by Navies. That is not going to change anytime soon.

I didn't forget about them, it will be interesting to see what happens when China is classed as a superpower

[tomder55]

I didn't forget about them, it will be interesting to see what happens when China is classed as a superpower

For one thing I don't have high hopes for Taiwan autonomy... or as I metioned British control of the Falklands once oil is discovered off shore.

[phlanx]

Tom, I don't think you understand what the Flaklands means to us, we still have some people who were teribly burnt appearing on main stream TV and the events are still fresh in our minds

There is no way, the Flaklands will be taken off us!

I think you need to read some stories of what our armed forces achieved in taking it off the argies

[tomder55]

I think you need to read some stories of what our armed forces achieved in taking it off the argies

You mean besides the 1982 war ? I know it was comparatively by today's standards a costly affair in terms of ship tonnage lost. 2 destroyers and 2 frigates sunk would be considered a big loss today.

I also know that although it hasn't been contested since ;the issue of sovereignty is still in dispute with Argentina routinely bringing the issue to the UN.
Speaking of that ;what will Britain do when the UN rules in favor of Argentina under something like the LOST (law of the sea treaty ) ? How will that devotion to international organizations work for you ?

[ETWolverine]

Morning Elliot

Can you tell where I said the USA should be part of the EU?

Show me where I said the US shoudl conform to all models of the EU, I did say if you want to supply a product to the EU market you have to conform to its regs - is that concept lost on you? or do you think NTSC tvs work in europe?

Nope you not getting it right, more trying to put words on my keyboard :)

I have no problems with doing that ON A CASE BY CASE (contract by contract) basis. What you SEEMED to be saying was that we had to do it across the board. If I misinterpreted your statements, then I apologize. We are in agreement.

Moreover, there is a treaty that is under consideration by the Obama admionistration that would do exactly that... make us subservient to the EU and all it's regulations and laws. I guess that's what has me in such a tizzy over the concept.

[phlanx]

You really think that the UN will rule against us?

Argentina can bring an argument to the UN all it likes, It is British and will remain so

The ships were mostly sunk by exocet missiles

This was after we sunk there belgrano by the HMS Conqueror

The Argentine Navy then all but retired to port and after a few air strikes the rest of the argentine navy ran away

There repsonse was to sink our ships by excoet missiles, which proved very effective

While this was going on, the SAS made strikes against aircraft and other launching targets

The following 10 days of the war involved groups of commandos, marines, and SAS moving across the islands taking the points that the argies had dug into to

This included such feats as a 3 day yomp and fight at the end of it without sleep or stopping

Taking prisoner of 1500 argies from 500 commandos

And so and so on

Britain had gone through a rough patch and was still feeling the effects of almost being destroyed by the unions

It was the first time I felt patriotic about this country

A few soldiers gave their lives, and the unlucky ones came back with terrible injuries

All came back to a hero's welcome, something that is lacking in today's return from the middle east

The only reason why argies are lobbying the UN is they know they can't take it by force, they also know we have too much of a say at the UN for them to allow any such transition

The people on the island will fight (declared it earlier this year) any attempt of argies coming onto the shores

We got the falklands fair and square, just as we got dozens of other islands around the world, some by trade, some by force, some as gifts, this history will not be given back without a fight!!

On top of that we also have a gripe with the argies over maradonnas hand of god - something that almost started a war by itself

[tomder55]

Moreover, there is a treaty that is under consideration by the Obama admionistration that would do exactly that... make us subservient to the EU and all it's regulations and laws. I guess that's what has me in such a tizzy over the concept.

In fact Codex Alimentarius already makes us beholden to "international food " standards. What it means to my industry is that vitamins and nutritional supplements that are routinely sold in the US over the counter by people looking to use natural alternatives to pharmaceutical medicines and for the prevention of illness will be forced to comply with restrictive European notions of potency .
The Europeans put ridiculous restrictions on vitamins in 2002 and these will be the "standard " . These restrictions on potency are designed to make the products useless . The European Food Safety Authority (EFSA) is now working to accomplish an international standard for the Maximum Permitted (dosage) Levels (MPLs) for all approved supplements along with additional laws that will reclassify supplements as medicines. In other words ,anything made over the Maximum dosage will be classified a drug ;and an unapproved drug at that . Say goodby to your vitamin Cs .Our FDA is on board.

[tomder55]

Steve I admire your national pride. I hope I am wrong about this . But I do think you should consider spending more on your national defense and less on the nanny state.

[phlanx]

I have no problems with doing that ON A CASE BY CASE (contract by contract) basis. What you SEEMED to be saying was that we had to do it across the board. If I misinterpreted your statements, then I apologize. We are in agreement.

Moreover, there is a treaty that is under consideration by the Obama admionistration that would do exactly that... make us subservient to the EU and all it's regulations and laws. I guess that's what has me in such a tizzy over the concept.

I speak plainly, I don't imply anything :) Apologies taken

I rarely read or see the news except clippets, that keep me informed as much as I like

This is because I hate not being told everything

When W Bush was pressing the UN for the war, and all that crap with them saying no, I wondered what the UN was after for them to be so postively against a war considering what had just happened

It was about 6 montsh later I read that America had signed up to a treaty governing certain aspects of your education and bringing into line with a world order, something which The US has resisted on for many many years

Still to this day I wonder why that treaty was signed by bush after so long a refusal

The EU have imposed a lot of laws of on us, and I think some 40% of our laws are now european laws

As much as I hate the idea of a frenchie, german, spanish, or italian telling me what to do, it is the same for them, after speaking to most countries while I visit, they feel the same way as both if us

Patriotic to the end,but it is a smaller world, and the need for economics is for the markets to be the same, and for that to happen the roads must be the same and so on

This is the way we are moving and have been doing so for a while now, the momentum is only going to stop with war, and as that is ever decreasing then you an I must be grateful for one thing

At least we don't have to learn a second language to be understood :)

[phlanx]

Steve I admire your national pride. I hope I am wrong about this . But I do think you should consider spending more on your national defense and less on the nanny state.

We are in agreement on that :)

I think the problem is the local councils have to stick to a set of rules, this is to show impartiality in every case and so demonstrates what was once a somewhat "dodgy" system of back hand bribes etc

Plus, today we are mad for getting needless deaths down, all of which is admirable

But these actions are still in their infancy and as such they take things too far at times, which does undermined their successes

Eitherway mate, we are a small island that has suffered with a lack of investment, on top of several recessions, of which this is the worst since the 1920s, we have a good economy, but for a nation our size we do all right :)

Plus our history books are full of letters from generals telling parliament to send more resources, and before that it was the king, it is no different today as it was then

[JudyKayTee]

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