[galveston]

The main point is that I don't want a government that has already failed at so many things running my health care.

Washington has a proven track record, and it is not good.

[Wondergirl]

The main point is that I don't want a government that has already failed at so many things running my health care.

Washington has a proven track record, and it is not good.

The IRS, VA, and SS web sites are fantastic though, as is their customer service.

[galveston]

The IRS, VA, and SS web sites are fantastic though, as is their customer service.

They have good web sites? What does that mean?

The idea of a graduated income tax was first proposed by Karl Marx. It is destructive and un American by nature. The IRS is undoubtedly the most feared arm of the government.

VA hospitials are not noted for good health care. Horror stories abound.

SS was set up as a ponzi scheme to start with and is going under. Killing 50 million future taxpayers hasn't helped the situation either.

Fantastic customer service? You bet!

The IRS will definitely tend to you if you do not "voluntarily" send the confession sheet and pay the taxes.

Your examples show why I don't trust Washingtom.

[speechlesstx]

The IRS, VA, and SS web sites are fantastic though, as is their customer service.

I'm sorry, but that's funny, lol!

[excon]

I'm sorry, but that's funny, lol!

Hello Steve:

What's funny is your response... You were looking for government agencies that provide good service.. Carol mentioned a couple... Then you dissed her because the particular SERVICE that's delivered WELL, isn't a service you like... Therefore, she's all wet...

How about the biggest government agency of all - the military?? Do you like them?? Do you think THEY deliver the service they're supposed to deliver?? I'll bet you do, because you LIKE the military... How about your local cops?? Do THEY deliver good service? How about your fire department??

Dude! Your hypocrisy is showing! YOU, like the Wolverine think the part of government that delivers services you DON'T LIKE, sucks!! But, when you consider the parts of government that you LIKE, well damn, government works just fine...

excon

[Catsmine]

the particular SERVICE that's delivered WELL,

Can you please explain to me how these examples deliver their service well?

The IRS audits and prosecutes pitifully few tax cheats and lets the biggest ones become headlines.

The VA has seemingly changed their mission to getting vets out from under their purview altogether.

The SSA allows everyone and their cousin Mary to require an ID number which is specifically prohibited by law.

This level of service would result in rapid bankruptcy from ANY service provider but the government.

[excon]

Hello C:

So, instead of going by popular BELIEF, and the recent emails I received, I'm going by my EXPERIENCES. After all, I HAD (and STILL have) lots of those beliefs too.

It's true. I don't like the DMV. They make me take a number and wait to go to window 983, only to find out that I took my number from the WRONG number thingy, and I have to start all over again... THAT, I hate...

With that kind of mind set, can you imagine how much I feared turning 65 knowing that I'm going to have to deal with SS and Medicare??

I was PLEASANTLY surprised... No, REALLY. I'd LOVE to blast government. There's parts I don't like either... But, it's true - I was pleasantly surprised when I got my Medicare card with NO hassell. They pay the bills. They haven't, as of yet, told me that I have to die. They haven't refused ANY medical service I've required... I don't know. What's not to like??

Social Security?? Boy, was I NOT looking forward to dealing with THEM... They're HUGE. For sure, they're going to hassell me...

But, they send the checks ON TIME every month. When I was going to change banks, I KNEW that my next three checks would be lost somewhere... But, when I went in, there was about 4 or 5 people there. They took care of me no matter WHAT window I went too, and my check got into my bank on the FIRST TRY.

Now, I don't like what the IRS DOES, but in terms of how I've been treated, I can't complain... They send my refund checks, and they don't hassell me. When they DID audit me, they asked about the ONE item they had questions about. When I provided the documentation they required, they thanked me, and went away...

In the final analysis, the IRS is nothing more than a glorified collection agency. I've dealt with collection agencies... As much as it pains me to say this, I'll take the IRS collectors ANY DAY over those scumbag PRIVATE collectors..

Those are MY experiences with the government agencies that I deal with. I'd LOVE to believe the emails... I'd LOVE to believe the rhetoric... But, I believe MY EYES first..

excon

[Wondergirl]

How about the biggest government agency of all - the military??? Do you like them??? Do you think THEY deliver the service they're supposed to deliver??? I'll bet you do, because you LIKE the military... How about your local cops??? Do THEY deliver good service?? How about your fire department???

How could you miss mentioning PUBLIC LIBRARIES??

[excon]

How could you miss mentioning PUBLIC LIBRARIES???????

Hello Little Miss Librarian,

I don't know! How'd I DO that?

excon

[Catsmine]

How could you miss mentioning PUBLIC LIBRARIES???????

I've never been to a federally funded Public Library. All of the ones I've been to are funded by local governments and private donations. Does yours get a grant?

[Wondergirl]

I've never been to a federally funded Public Library. All of the ones I've been to are funded by local governments and private donations. Does yours get a grant?

Private donations? Like through property taxes, our largest source of funding?

We usually get grants from the state. Public libraries are local government entities (I didn't say federal.)

I thought government at any level is the enemy here.

Please read this --

Library Funding. ERIC Digest.

[galveston]

Private donations? Like through property taxes, our largest source of funding?

We usually get grants from the state. Public libraries are local government entities (I didn't say federal.)

I thought government at any level is the enemy here.

Please read this --

Library Funding. ERIC Digest.

Government becomes the enemy when it goes beyond what the Constitution authorizes it to. Otherwise it is the proper servant of the people.

Our Federal government has long since gone beyond its authorization.

Military, infrastructure, mail, and money are within the Constitutional pervue of the federal government.

We could make long list of things that are not, but have been taken over anyway.

[phlanx]

Evening Elliot

You are not going to believe this, but I think we actually agree on something

In the UK a few weeks ago, we had a similar report

Two police officers who had been friends for years shared the repsonsibility of looking after each other kids when the other was working

If they had to factor in the cost of full time care at nursery's then they would be better off on social benefits

A "complaint" was made by someone, and the two wpc's were informed they are breaking the law

What kind of stupidty are we living in here, especially if this is the feeling from two separate governments

Myself and my sister spent most summer holidays going from one aunts house to another, and as one of your posts states, who better is there to pick you up and clean up your wounds after you came off your bike than family! (especially if it is not your mom after you have ripped your jeans)

Bonkers elliot, totally bonkers

Steve

[speechlesstx]

What's funny is your response... You were looking for government agencies that provide good service.. Carol mentioned a couple... Then you dissed her because the particular SERVICE that's delivered WELL, isn't a service you like... Therefore, she's all wet...

I've never heard anyone speak of the IRS offering "good service" before, but what was funny was that they have great web sites. Tell me that at tax time when you need an answer you can understand.

How about the biggest government agency of all - the military?? Do you like them?? Do you think THEY deliver the service they're supposed to deliver?? I'll bet you do, because you LIKE the military... How about your local cops?? Do THEY deliver good service? How about your fire department??

I don't much like my local cops but they're necessary and I wouldn't want to do without them. Fire departments are usually first class.

Dude! Your hypocrisy is showing! YOU, like the Wolverine think the part of government that delivers services you DON'T LIKE, sucks!! But, when you consider the parts of government that you LIKE, well damn, government works just fine...

The military has the toughest job in the world so they deserve my respect. Otherwise, I don't find much government efficiency in anything.

[tomder55]

The military has the toughest job in the world so they deserve my respect. Otherwise, I don't find much government efficiency in anything.

And I've never heard of anyone accusing the adminstering of the military establishment as being efficient. They do a great service true. But the cost of those hammers...

[speechlesstx]

And I've never heard of anyone accusing the adminstering of the military establishment as being efficient. They do a great service true. But the cost of those hammers.........

Yep. We do business with the Air Force fairly regularly and while they have stringent quality requirements they have no clue as to what they're paying for things. I know, I shouldn't gouge the military and then complain about government spending... but I don't. Doing business with them is such a pain you have to add to cover the extra costs associated with doing business with the federal government.

[ETWolverine]

The IRS, VA, and SS web sites are fantastic though, as is their customer service.

So... you like doing business with the IRS, the VA and SS?

The VA may have a wonderful website, but their HOSPITALS are festering hellholes.

The IRA may have a wonderful website, but they are out to take your money, and they aren't exactly the most empathetic people on earth.

The Social Security website may be wonderful, but the SS Trust Fund is BANKRUPT.

So... aside from their wonderful websites, what exactly is it that makes you think that the government is competent at providing the services we are looking for in a health care provider?

Elliot

[ETWolverine]

The military has the toughest job in the world so they deserve my respect. Otherwise, I don't find much government efficiency in anything.

I agree with Tom on this one.

There is a HUGE difference between EFFICIENCY and EFFECTIVENESS. The military is one of the very few parts of government that are highly EFFECTIVE in the performance of their given tasks.

But they are FAR from EFFICIENT.

Elliot

[ETWolverine]

How could you miss mentioning PUBLIC LIBRARIES???????

Those are city-run bodies, not Federal.

Elliot

[ETWolverine]

Hello Steve:

What's funny is your response... You were looking for government agencies that provide good service.. Carol mentioned a couple... Then you dissed her because the particular SERVICE that's delivered WELL, isn't a service you like... Therefore, she's all wet...

No, she's all wet because the very agencies she mentioned are the very examples of government inefficicency that we're talking about.

How about the biggest government agency of all - the military?? Do you like them?? Do you think THEY deliver the service they're supposed to deliver?? I'll bet you do, because you LIKE the military...

They are EFFECTIVE at their jobs, but not particularly EFFICIENT. You have been talking about how EFFICIENT the government will be at delivering health care. Using the military as an example of EFFICIENCY is a total crock and you know it.

How about your local cops?? Do THEY deliver good service? How about your fire department??

Both are city-run organizations, not Federal. Nevertheless, as much as I like the services that they provide, they are not exactly models of efficiency either. Especially when you consider that most cities that have paid police and fire departments (as opposed to volunteer systems) actually pay for THREE of EACH... they pay for their current police and fire force, the ones that are recently retired and the ones that retired 20 years ago... due to their pension programs. That is, they are paying 300% of what the private sector would be paying for employment benefits. That is MASSIVE INEFFICIENCY. Yes, the service is good... but the cost is not lower, it's higher than the private sector would pay for the same service.

Dude! Your hypocrisy is showing! YOU, like the Wolverine think the part of government that delivers services you DON'T LIKE, sucks!! But, when you consider the parts of government that you LIKE, well damn, government works just fine...

Excon

No... we're criticizing ALL government agencies equally... as being HIGHLY INEFFICIENT and poor examples of how to SAVE MONEY over the private sector. The fact that some (very few) of those agencies have managed to provide good services doesn't make them more efficient than the private sector. Government agencies are ALL wasteful, and inefficient and MOST also provide awful service.

The only hipocracy here is coming from you... claiming to be an advocate of government, claiming to be happy with the services cops provide, but then dissing on cops as all being corrupt and evil when they get in the way of your weed or put someone in jail for possession or when they "fight the war on drugs" that you don't believe in.

Your hippocracy includes the fact that you continue to push for a government health care system "out of the goodness of your heart" in order "to help the poor", but you wouldn't dream of stepping into a VA office yourself to take care of your medical needs, even though as a wartime Vet you are eligible for their services. Government health care is good enough for poor folks, but not for excon.

We're being equally critical across the board, including of the government agencies who's services we like. YOU are the one with multiple levels of hippocracy.

Elliot