[inertia]

I'm sorry to not jump right in and sound the horns of triumph, but I'm really confused. He was inattentive, selfish and not attracted to you? When you were angry he became charming and caring? He has manipulated you with guilt?? Is there something specific you feel guilty for? From your description, it sounds like his heart wasn't in the relationship anyway. How could you break it? You mean to say the relationship consisted of you being ignored and used and now he is manipulating you with guilt? I'm actually interested in what his side of the story is. I'm not accusing you of misleading us, but this doesn't add up for me. How could you feel guilty for breaking up with someone who didn't love you? Oh, and I read Too good to leave too bad stay. My ex's friend gave it to her when we were having some problems. That book is written by and for women. I hated it. It literally contradicts itself but only from a woman's point of view. "Does he refuse to help you garden while watching football?" "Does he ask you to make him sandwiches?" Guy's POV: "Does she make you quit watching football to garden?" "Does she resent you for asking for something (even though she asks so much of you)?" "Do you find yourself nagging him all the time"? Come on, the book blames the man for the woman nagging all the time!!

[paxe]

Hi. Me again. He just called and was sobbing. Literally begging me to take him back. It was horrible. I feel like the greatest b***** of all time. I hate hurting people. I didn't even know I had it in me. Gosh, tell me it will get better. I know I can't go back to him, but hurting people goes against my nature. Guilt is not a feeling; it's a state of being right now. I feel horrible. I hate myself for hurting another person. I don't feel like I deserve to be happy if this guy is suffering so much. I know on some level that's wrong, but it's like I'm punishing myself for being cruel.

I told him there was no chance we could work things out. I told him I had started dating casually, and he needed to move on. He could hardly speak from being so upset and I never saw him cry before. Awful.

I just want to pull the covers over my head and sleep off my night. I just can't face anyone right now.

I have to say that it's beautiful that you do care about his happiness but this guilt feeling is normal. Don't contact him and don't give him false hope. He will get better don't worry about it and he may find someone who he'll be even happier with.

[inertia]

Sorry, the book irritates me. Forget I said anything.

[taoplr]

sorry, the book irritates me. forget i said anything.

Actually, I agree with you that his side of the story would be interesting. The better Cor understands it, in his context, the more able she will be to act on her own behalf and be straight up with him throughout.

Read back into this thread and you will see that her guilt is a pattern for which she has taken responsibility.

Tao

[57373]

So you come here to be guilt free?

It seems you are looking for a way to clear your conscious.

Guess what,you have every right to feel guilty.

Right or wrong,you hurt this guy,he can't fake what he's feeling.

You know what doesn't help?

Casually dating this soon after a break up,to him it's a slap in the face,especially if you guys were serious.

You know how many guys would actually still cry these days and tell you how much you mean to them? not cheat on you,and have emotions?

About 1/1000

By all means you should feel guilty.

You will probably regret this when the casual relationships fade,and he no longer cares.

[paxe]

So you come here to be guilt free?

It seems you are looking for a way to clear your concious.

Guess what,you have every right to feel guilty.

right or wrong,you hurt this guy,he can't fake what he's feeling.

You know what doesn't help?

casually dating this soon after a break up,to him it's a slap in the face,especially if you guys were serious.

You know how many guys would actually still cry these days and tell you how much you mean to them?,not cheat on you,and have emotions?

about 1/1000

By all means you should feel guilty.

You will probably regret this when the casual relationships fade,and he no longer cares.

I wouldn't be so harsh but there is a hint of truth. Shouldn't you have waited a couple of month before dating?

[inertia]

Ohhh, she moved on quickly. Yeah guilt comes with the territory to remind you how much pain you have caused. It's a necessary human emotion that you will either choose to ignore or learn from.

[taoplr]

ohhh, she moved on quickly.

(Hmmmmm... )

Yeah guilt comes with the territory to remind you how much pain you have caused. It's a necessary human emotion that you will either choose to ignore or learn from."

Her original post:

I endured a year and a half relationship with my boyfriend. He was not affectionate, did not make me a priority and our sex life has been terrible for a year. I tried many times to break up, but he would always talk me out of it. When I was angry with him, he would become adorable, caring and kind. He also figured out that I will stay with someone out of pity and used it to his advantage.

So, I finally broke up with him and stood my ground. It was awful. Terrible. Broke my heart as usual, but this time I followed through. I'm feeling really guilty and he keeps leaving these messages and I can hear his distress in his voice.

Am I doing the right thing? Gosh, I tried everything to get us back on track romantically, but he just shut down and wouldn't be romantic at all. In truth, I think we were just so different. But he's a lonely guy. He has an incredibly hard time with interpersonal relationships due to his childhood. But he was incredibly quiet with my family and it always bothered me. Also, he was glued to his blackberry and didn't understand why it would bother me. On vacations, instead of his blackberry, he became similarly obsessed with taking pictures. Blaaaahhhh!

We sat in near silence at many restaurants. He wouldn't smile and the only things he liked to talk about were negative (i.e. people he was angry with or service that wasn't done properly)...Nitpicky. He dominated the remote, ignored me in favor of watching tv and REFUSED to EVER give me a back massage, but wanted many massages himself. Grrrrrr.

Okay, I get that he sounds awful, but he did sweet things too, on occasion. And I truly did care for him.

I guess what I'm asking is how to get over my guilt. In all this, I feel that I let him down by breaking up with him. I know his heart is breaking. Any advice would be lovely.

I wanted him to be able to open up, but is it my responsibility to stay with someone who is unhappy?

Help!

Guys,
If you read her original post and the whole thread, you might be less enthusiastic about judging her the way you have. This guy has been a 1st class jerk, and there is no reason to believe that his tears are going to lubricate a change. Would you stay in a relationship like she had?

Inertia, are you still pi**ed-off about that book? Why pile on, then? Do you actually believe that she's avoiding her guilt and the lessons that come with it? She's a guilt junkie!

57373, she didn't start dating; she broke their Facebook attachment. Even so, if they were not married and she's NC, exactly what's wrong with her dating other guys right away?

You judged her pretty hard:
"It seems you are looking for a way to clear your concious." (Really? What tells you that?)
...
"By all means you should feel guilty."

No disrespect, but aren't we supposed to help these people?

Tao

[57373]

To taopir-

In retrospect the way she described him is obviously bias,why? Because she is trying to justify guilt.

I'm sure if someone asked her all the good things about him (even had there just been a few) she wouldn't name as much,because what she wants to hear is 'no don't feel guilty he's horrible'

But I am going by his reactions,not what she described him as (because I don't know him)

And it is obvious he wants to change,he wants to try,it is obvious she means a lot to him,but he has communication problems,so uses anger instead of logic,she then interprets this a different way,also his pessismism could stem from low self esteem,again nothing to do with her.

He seems very fragile,not malicious.

But the malicious cover,eases guilt.

What I see this as is nothing on his part,he didn't change.

What changed was the op (poster),you are tired of his stability,introverted behavior,and rountine,you are probably outgoing and strong minded... the complete oppasite,and I'm sure you knew this going into the relationship.

Relationships are commitment,problem solving,
You don't want to do that,so I'd say,yeah this ones over.

[inertia]

Obviously if he was all that bad, she would feel nothing but relief. I just don't understand the "man" she is describing.

"He also figured out that I will stay with someone out of pity and used it to his advantage." I mean really? She is painting him as an uncaring and manipulative person. Why feel guilty?

"What changed was the op (poster),you are tired of his stability,introverted behavior,and rountine,you are probably outgoing and strong minded...the complete oppasite,and i'm sure you knew this going into the relationship."

So strong minded is the opposite of which part; stable, introverted or routine?

It's one thing to end a relationship citing incompatibilities, but when there is fallout why do girls demonize a heartbroken guy. "oh, he's just doing this to manipulate me therefore I don't have to feel anything". Nope, he hurts. You hurt him. Guilt proves you are not a sociopath. His pain proves he obviously cared (even though maybe he didn't show it). It's called breaking up and it sucks. Learn from it and move on. He'll live. He might never like you as a person again. He might see eye to eye with your decision after some time to grieve. Wait until you are in his shoes, when some guy you truly love breaks up with you because you don't love him the way he wants to be loved. Then when you cry because it hurts, listen to him say "man, why are you trying to manipulate me"?

The funny thing about all this is, I'm willing to bet if he didn't care you moved on, you'd be posting about how it's so easy for him to forget and it hurts you.

My ex broke up with me and I cried right there. I didn't ask her to come back. She told me everything I did that drove her nuts. I told her I thought she was great. She said I was trying to manipulate her with guilt. I vanished. Never answered her calls, never called her. Got my own life in a hurry. Not even 1 week went by and she broke into my house at 330 in the morning. I threw her out and never called her. Rumors went around that I was an A$$hole. One of her friends told me, she wanted me to chase her and win her back.? Why say I'm the manipulative one? If I had chased her, she'd be posting the stuff I'm reading from OP.

Understand his pain is real, but it's no longer your problem. Wish him well and offer a friendship if and when he is ready. You don't have to hold his hand through this. He wants you to, because as his ex, it used to be your job. He will learn he can cope without you. You will learn that someone can and will be able to get over you, without your assistance.

[taoplr]

57373,

First, thanks for your on-the-point response. We interpret letitbe's story differently.

To taopir-

In retrospect the way she described him is obviously bias,why? Because she is trying to justify guilt.

I don't see that at all. In fact, I see her as a guilt junkie. She tortures herself, and has suffered by feeling guilty for having broken up.

I'm sure if someone asked her all the good things about him (even had there just been a few) she wouldn't name as much,because what she wants to hear is 'no don't feel guilty he's horrible'

But I am going by his reactions,not what she described him as (because I don't know him)

And it is obvious he wants to change,he wants to try,it is obvious she means a lot to him,but he has communication problems,so uses anger instead of logic,she then interprets this a different way,also his pessismism could stem from low self esteem,again nothing to do with her.

He seems very fragile,not malicious.

But the malicious cover,eases guilt.

Yes, he's fragile and has communication problems and had a bad childhood. And, no he's not malicious. He hasn't shown the willingness to change or grow up, though. She talked about how he can be nice. But he is not affectionate, doesn't pay attention to her, or make love to her, or care until she gets mad or breaks up with him. I think she is being realistic.

What changed was the op (poster),you are tired of his stability,introverted behavior,and rountine,you are probably outgoing and strong minded... the complete oppasite,and I'm sure you knew this going into the relationship.

Relationships are commitment,problem solving,
You don't want to do that,so I'd say,yeah this ones over.

From where do you get the idea that she knew they were opposites going into the relationship?

She said that she had tried many things and had finally given up. They have had several breakups. It's not that this dude is so bad. And it's not that she deserves he blame that you are ready to dump on her ("you don't want to do that). It's that they are done.

Tao

[Janet10]

Wow this feels like me it really does... see my recent post janet10... im still with him, his depressed and unhappy and speaks negatively A lot and our sex life is non exsistent.I stay because he says he loves me and I love him we are like best mates , if I say we should have a break or question our sex life he will say the same thing but I love you... I have tried like you to break up but it's the guilt and believe it or not I do love him... I wish I could be a strong as you.. grrrrrr its so hard when someone is not overtly out of order but just don't make the effort, it makes you feel guilty, again it feels like the only reason you should break up with someone is if they cheat or hit you, I I know that's not true I need to realise that... well done xx

[letitbe1111]

wow this feels like me it really does...see my recent post janet10.....im still with him, his depressed and unhappy and speaks negatively ALOT and our sex life is non exsistent.i stay cos he says he loves me and i love him we are like best mates , if i say we should have a break or question our sex life he will say the same thing but i love you....i have tried like you to break up but its the guilt and believe it or not i do love him.........i wish i could be a strong as you..grrrrrr its so hard when someone is not overtly out of order but just dont make the effort, it makes you feel guilty, again it feels like the only reason you should break up with someone is if they cheat or hit you, i i know thats not true i need to realise that ..........well done xx

Hi Janet,

I just thought I'd pop on this site as I have a new problem with that ex (which you will see in my next post). I just want you to know that I DON'T REGRET MY DECISION AT ALL!! I had to do this for ME and I'm really glad I did. He simply wasn't giving me what I needed. The book that spelled this out for me (because breaking it off was very hard for me) was called Too Good to Leave to Bad to Stay by Mira Kirschenbaum. I can't recommend it highly enough.

I wish I could say that my ex took things well, but he continues his manipulations. He still tries to guilt me into coming back (why not, it always worked before, right?) and he's holding my possessions prisoner (I am too scared to retrieve my stuff because I'm afraid he won't allow me to leave once I go to pick them up), and the latest and most concerning thing is that I am starting to suspect he's been in my house on more than one occasion. I am currently debating changing all my locks.

His actions during the break up show that something is fundamentally wrong with him. These are manipulative actions. Withholding sex is another manipulative, controlling thing to do. And also, begging you to stay after treating you poorly is manipulative. If I can offer you one piece of advice Janet, it is this, trust your instincts. If you have a funny feeling that 'something isn't right', trust it! I didn't and it got me wrapped up in a miserable year and a half relationship.

Good luck!

[letitbe1111]

57373,

First, thanks for your on-the-point response. We interpret letitbe's story differently.



I don't see that at all. In fact, I see her as a guilt junkie. She tortures herself, and has suffered by feeling guilty for having broken up.



Yes, he's fragile and has communication problems and had a bad childhood. And, no he's not malicious. He hasn't shown the willingness to change or grow up, though. She talked about how he can be nice. But he is not affectionate, doesn't pay attention to her, or make love to her, or care until she gets mad or breaks up with him. I think she is being realistic.


From where do you get the idea that she knew they were opposites going into the relationship?

She said that she had tried many things and had finally given up. They have had several breakups. It's not that this dude is so bad. And it's not that she deserves he blame that you are ready to dump on her ("you don't want to do that). It's that they are done.

tao

Thanks for clearing things up Tao. I do feel like the two posters were being extremely critical of me. It also seemed they were using their own painful experiences and putting themselves in my ex's place. I wish them peace. I know I've found it.

My ex and I were not compatible. Despite treating me poorly, he also claimed to love me very much. Perhaps he did. His behaviors drove me away and even though it was hard and it felt bad, I had every right to walk away.


Best,
Me

[letitbe1111]

So you come here to be guilt free?

It seems you are looking for a way to clear your concious.

Guess what,you have every right to feel guilty.

right or wrong,you hurt this guy,he can't fake what he's feeling.

You know what doesn't help?

casually dating this soon after a break up,to him it's a slap in the face,especially if you guys were serious.

You know how many guys would actually still cry these days and tell you how much you mean to them?,not cheat on you,and have emotions?

about 1/1000

By all means you should feel guilty.

You will probably regret this when the casual relationships fade,and he no longer cares.

Hmm. I guess you are entitled to your opinion. Dating so soon after? When I wasn't happy for months on end? When I hadn't been kissed in about 6 months. No, I do not feel bad about that at all, dear. I felt bad because he played this desperate card over and over and OVER. And I bought it. And somehow I let that violin concerto he was playing override the fact that he only cared about himself and we only did what he wanted to do. But you know what? I don't feel guilty any more. I needed to get away from him to see what was really going on. And you know what else? He would never let me get away from him. He kept tabs on me, and if I tried to break up he would physically restrain me from leaving his place. This is why I lost about 500.00 in stuff when we broke up. It just isn't worth it to go and get it because I don't want to be dragged back into the abyss. People who are manipulative (and I assure you he was) can play you so well you don't even realize it's happening.

Cheers.

[paxe]

letitbe1111 you're probably right, but you need proper healing though before you date, it's common sense. Even if you're the breakee, you need time alone to take care of yourself.

[inertia]

I re-read my old posts. I still think that book is complete nonsense. I was never attacking you. It's just funny how you have labeled this guy. Whatever gets you through the day I suppose. I still don't see one flaw you have admitted to yourself (except for being too good to him). I don't relate to him at all by the way. Just being upset over a breakup. Nothing else. You don't need to wish me peace either. I harbor no resentment and I didn't need another girlfriend to do it. Life is pretty interesting when you can handle being alone.

[letitbe1111]

I re-read my old posts. I still think that book is complete nonsense. I was never attacking you. It's just funny how you have labeled this guy. Whatever gets you through the day I suppose. I still don't see one flaw you have admitted to yourself (except for being too good to him). I don't relate to him at all by the way. Just being upset over a breakup. Nothing else. You don't need to wish me peace either. I harbor no resentment and I didn't need another girlfriend to do it. Life is pretty interesting when you can handle being alone.

Dude, how do I get this through to you: I'm SINGLE. And I looooveeee it. I thought there might be something with a guy a couple months ago, but it didn't pan out and that was cool. And last I checked anyone can wish anyone peace I want to. So, like it or not:

Peace out dude.

[inertia]

Well you're on top of things then. Congrats.

[Survivor07]

Well, you stayed true to your user name Let It Be.
Well done. (I'm referring to the $500 in stuff you left behind).

You made the right decision for sure, but just in case you're tempted, DO NOT go to his place to retrieve your things. Forget 'em. People have walked away from much more than that to be free.

Good story and great advice on here

Oh, and... Peace