[sndbay]

Explain why Christ Commissioned His Church to 'go baptize' in Matthew chapter 28? Can you explain why this is?

You're right; always “the testimony of God is greater.” He commanded His Captains to go Baptize; and by extension, commands us to be baptized. If baptism is a meaningless symbol surly you can show how this verse is meaningless also. By all means, look to the credibility of the testimony!

JoeT

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.


Matthew 29:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
29:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

Joe, 1st we are all brothers and sisters, and I love you all. We are not to be denominations in Christ, but instead we are to be perfect, and have unity in Christ. We are the many members of one body, and that one body is Christ. Christ dwells in us. It is not the structured building but it is the fellowship of members that walks in the spirit.

2nd His disciple were told to go teach all nation (what are they to teach?) The gospel, the prinicple doctrine Jesus Christ, the milk for babes as Paul called it. And in teaching, the principle doctrine includes baptism with the confession of the begotten Son of God.

NOW if we review Mark 1, it is the principle doctrine being spoken. (Mark 1:1)
But let us Refer (Mark 1:9 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost) Who is HE? He will baptize you!

The symbolic water washing is claimed by John the Baptist's teaching to come.. But HE, will baptize you! = It is not John ..

How else could it be written all were Baptized by the same spiritual Rock, and that Rock is Christ Jesus REFER (1 Cr 10:2-3-4 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ)


Christ is always with us. HE is THERE
unto Moses = In the mist of Moses and what was taken place, and those brought out of captivity, Christ was there with them and did baptism them.

Sorry, sndbay,

I have not seen anywhere in the scripture where water baptism was performed alone. Jesus went to John Baptist, Philip baptized the eunuch, etc... :confused: I do understand that it is the Spirit of God which baptize us by the Holy Spirit.

Who would baptize John the Baptist?

I am comforted in knowing Christ is always with us, and it is He who sent the HOLY SPIRIT to comfort us.

Christ leds the way, we just have to follow. Both spiritually and phyical, both bodies. Applying: ONE FAITH ONE LORD ONE BAPTISM, = (completeness) ONE GOD, and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Fred,

I don't think the Lord makes exceptions for anyone. If baptism is required for salvation, then it is required for salvation. But it isn't required......Jesus finished the work on the cross. I'm not suggesting that baptism isn't important or something the Lord wants us to do. But the bible says that salvation is of the LORD. He is the only one that can save us.

I agree with Fred on this ClassyT,

# 1 ONE FAITH
# 2 ONE LORD
# 3 ONE BAPTISM

Awareness throughtout scripture the spiritual significance of number three.

Three. Denotes completeness, as three lines complete a plane figure. Hence, three is significant of Divine perfection and completeness. The third day completes the fundamentals of creation-work. The fourth, fifth, and sixth days are the counterpart and repetition of the first, second, and third, and correspond respectively. The number, three, includes resurrection also; for on the third day the earth rose up out of the deep, and the fruit rose up out of the earth.

AND of course, the trinity of Father Son and Holy Spirit is shown in three = ONE

[Unknown008]

It takes no mans hand to baptize.. You could be led into a pool of water of your own surrendered will, to do the Will of God . No greater witness then God

You said that, concerning water baptism.

I have not seen anywhere in the scripture where water baptism was performed alone. Jesus went to John Baptist, Philip baptized the eunuch, etc... :confused:I do understand that it is the Spirit of God which baptize us by the Holy Spirit.

I said that, concerning water baptism.

Who would baptize John the Baptist?

I am comforted in knowing Christ is always with us, and it is He who sent the HOLY SPIRIT to comfort us.

Christ leds the way, we just have to follow. Both spiritually and phyical, both bodies. Applying: ONE FAITH ONE LORD ONE BAPTISM, = (completeness) ONE GOD, and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

And you said that.

This tend to be more about baptism by the Holy Spirit to me, not water baptism. :(

[classyT]

I can only surmise it was the old-you.

JoeT

Note: You lost me in the suppositions and ill formed rationality.

LOL LOL LOL... sorry but that was funny. "Ill formed rationality"... my husband would REALLY like that statement.

Oh well, what you people call ill formed rationality... I call PROFOUND and exceedingly deep! :D

[classyT]

[QUOTE=sndbay



I agree with Fred on this ClassyT,

[/QUOTE]

I know you do... sigh... ok. You can both be wrong! :D

[sndbay]

You said that, concerning water baptism.



I said that, concerning water baptism.



And you said that.

This tend to be more about baptism by the Holy Spirit to me, not water baptism. :(

Unknown008 I am not positive about what you are asking.. but I think the question is what was the baptism of John compared to what you believe is the HOLY SPIRIT.

What we have for awareness is that scripture tells us whether it was John the Baptist of water baptism or whther it is the commanded baptism by Christ, Both are the same baptism, because both are the spiritual baptism done by the spirit of God.

Both were witnessed by heaven and earth because they are
Heaven= Father+Word+Holy Ghost, and Earth = Spirit + Water + Blood

The Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

Our Father gave record of this in Christ, and Our Father did testified that what Christ suffered in baptism, He was well pleased with. Our Father clearly testified (both) suffered baptism as the ONE baptism.

" ONE Baptism " is the spirit of God quickening the body. BECAUSE Without a good conscience toward God we could not be buried in Christ. The flesh body has to put on Christ.

(1 Cr 10:2-3-4) will confirm the same spiritual Rock was Christ in baptism, even for those before Christ's ever walked on earth.

[Unknown008]

Ok, I'll repeat my question once more:

I have not seen anywhere in the scripture where water baptism was performed alone. John the Baptist baptized Jesus, Philip baptized the eunuch, etc...

But you said that "It takes no mans hand to baptize.. "

I don't understand that because water baptism is performed by someone, by a human being, as in the examples I said previously.

[sndbay]

Ok, I'll repeat my question once more:

I have not seen anywhere in the scripture where water baptism was performed alone. John the Baptist baptized Jesus, Philip baptized the eunuch, etc...

But you said that "It takes no mans hand to baptize.. "

I don't understand that because water baptism is performed by someone, by a human being, as in the examples I said previously.

Okay I know, but I ask you then WHO? WHO would baptism John the baptist? Who if you need the helping hand of man would led John into water to be baptized himself?

Or do you think John was not baptized?

And who baptized the people who followed Moses out of captivity that were in the red sea and baptized?

[Unknown008]

Ok, I don't know my bible much, but I would think that the parents of John the Baptist would be the ones, Zechariah or Elizabeth...

About Moses, I just carried out a search, the bible does not mention who actually baptised them. :(

[JoeT777]

Ok, I'll repeat my question once more:

I have not seen anywhere in the scripture where water baptism was performed alone. John the Baptist baptized Jesus, Philip baptized the eunuch, etc...

But you said that "It takes no mans hand to baptize.. "

I don't understand that because water baptism is performed by someone, by a human being, as in the examples I said previously.

The question is dead on! Every baptism described in Scripture is of water. Go back to my post no 83 and follow the link to Mikveh See Search Results and Mikveh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

John’s baptism was a Mikveh. It required running water, but we don’t have any writing whether baptism of this type ‘required’ submersion. It seems it depended on the reason for the Mikveh.

Baptism in the Church requires both matter (water) and formula ("in the name of the Father and ...") If not then why Matt 29? Do you think that Christ was ignorant of his own Jewish faith?


JoeT

[sndbay]

Ok, I don't know my bible much, but I would think that the parents of John the Baptist would be the ones, Zechariah or Elizabeth...

About Moses, I just carried out a search, the bible does not mention who actually baptised them. :(

There is the verse of Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

The change that took place is shown in Acts 1:5, and probably what you are questioning.

It still remains fact that scripture tell us even when John was baptizing of water, it was the witnessed presence of God. It was Our Father who sent his servant John out as the greatest prophet, calling people to come into water to be baptism. It is all done by the hand of God, do you agree

[Unknown008]

Joe, then what would you say for:

Acts 1: 5 :for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

Acts 11:16 : Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

Thanks for pointing that out, a typo of me :o

[Unknown008]

There is the verse of Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

The change that took place is shown in Acts 1:5, and probably what you are questioning.

It still remains fact that scripture tell us even when John was baptizing of water, it was the witnessed presence of God. It was Our Father who sent his servant John out as the greatest prophet, calling people to come into water to be baptism. It is all done by the hand of God, do you agree

Yes, I agree with that. I will take it as water baptism is done by the servants of God, people. I cannot deny something that is not even mentioned in the bible. I do know that when we are baptised, we need witnesses, I mean from heaven and earth. I'm not overlooking the fact that you already said that there is no greater witness than God.

[sndbay]

Baptism in the Church requires both matter (water) and formula ("in the name of the Father and ...") If not then why Matt 29? Do you think that Christ was ignorant of his own Jewish faith?


JoeT

As it would also be for any being baptized today.. Water/Holy Spirit.. Confession of faith in the begotten Son of God /Blood.. and Spirit/ One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

In the name of Father Son and Holy Spirit

[sndbay]

Yes, I agree with that. I will take it as water baptism is done by the servants of God, people. I cannot deny something that is not even mentioned in the bible. I do know that when we are baptised, we need witnesses, I mean from heaven and earth. I'm not overlooking the fact that you already said that there is no greater witness than God.

Sincerely what you are comfortable with and can REST on..


~in Christ/Faith

[JoeT777]

Joe, then what would you say for:

Acts 1: 5 :for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

And so it was, John TRULY baptized with water, and sometime after the ascension they were baptized by the Holy Spirit. Juat as Luke tells us, the matter however isn’t water but fire. “John answered, saying unto all: I indeed baptize you with water: but there shall come one mightier than I, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to loose. He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire” (Luke 3:16 - my emphasis )

St. Chrysostom explains it best:

But why does Christ say, You shall be baptized, when in fact there was no water in the upper room? Because the more essential part of Baptism is the Spirit, through Whom indeed the water has its operation; in the same manner our Lord also is said to be anointed, not that He had ever been anointed with oil, but because He had received the Spirit. Besides, we do in fact find them receiving a baptism with water [and a baptism with the Spirit], and these at different moments. In our case both take place under one act, but then they were divided. For in the beginning they were baptized by John; since, if harlots and publicans went to that baptism, much rather would they who thereafter were to be baptized by the Holy Ghost. Then, that the Apostles might not say, that they were always having it held out to them in promises John 14:15-16, (for indeed Christ had already discoursed much to them concerning the Spirit, that they should not imagine It to be an impersonal Energy or Operation, (ἐ νέργειαν ἀνυπόστατον) that they might not say this, then, He adds, not many days hence. And He did not explain when, that they might always watch: but, that it would soon take place, He told them, that they might not faint; yet the exact time He refrained from adding, that they might always be vigilant. Nor does He assure them by this alone; I mean, by the shortness of the time, but withal by saying, The promise which you have heard of Me. For this is not, says He, the only time I have told you, but already I have promised what I shall certainly perform. What wonder then that He does not signify the day of the final consummation, when this day which was so near He did not choose to reveal? And with good reason; to the end they may be ever wakeful, and in a state of expectation and earnest heed. Homilies on the Acts of the Apostles, Homily 1 CHURCH FATHERS: Homily 1 on the Acts of the Apostles (Chrysostom)

Just so you know it wasn’t criticism; I do it out of the constant habit of correcting my own spelling.

JoeT

[Unknown008]

Does that mean you disagree with your previous post, saying that :

Every baptism described in Scripture is of water

[sndbay]

And I would like to have the answer from the opposite opinons concerning Baptism does NOW SAVE..

If you feel is does not SAVE, then what about scripture that says it does?

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

[sndbay]

Comments on this post #106 classyT agrees: You are correct.. even the Lord Jesus had John baptize him...
____________________________________
Acts 1: 5 :for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

Acts 11:16 : Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

Then what took place here and why?(without the hands of man)

[sndbay]

Does that mean you disagree with your previous post, saying that :

Every baptism described in Scripture is of water.

JoeT

Unknown008, I agree with Joe,

Every baptism in scripture is done of water. Whether you are led to water by John the Baptist, or led by the disciples, all were bapized by the spirit of God and water. ( and eventually that was shown of the early day baptism)

That is exactly why I trust that man can led you to water of baptism or preach baptism of the Holy Spirit, but it take no man hands to baptize of the Holy Spirit..


Let me example this another way, and I hope Joe will find it meets his approval as well.

The church priest takes the infant to baptize them with water, so they were led to the water of baptism. It is only by the hand of God, known as the spirit of God, that baptizes with the Holy Spirit. The scripture in Acts have exampled that, by the word of our Lord, the Holy Spirit would be given by the hand of God.

I believe the spirit of God does manifest the revealed truth within the infant when God Wills. And the Holy Spirit is not given until the confessed belief of the begotten Son, Jesus Christ .

That is also why I believe infants should be dedicated to God as infants, and led to water of baptism at an older age.. when the reveal truth and quicken spirit by the Holy Spirit can offer the newness of life, and putting a cap on the old nature.

The intention of the church is good, but God is patient to manifest forbearance in accordance to HIS Will.

Edit: to add, it is also why Peter said the Gentiles who received the Holy Spirit must still be baptized of water..

[Unknown008]

Unknown008, I agree with Joe,

Every baptism in scripture is done of water. Whether you are led to water by John the Baptist, or led by the disciples, all were bapized by the spirit of God and water. ( and eventually that was shown of the early day baptism)

That is exactly why I trust that man can led you to water of baptism or preach baptism of the Holy Spirit, but it take no man hands to baptize of the Holy Spirit..


Let me example this another way, and I hope Joe will find it meets his approval as well.

Wait wait wait. I was talking of water baptism, as the 'part' water baptism. I was referring only to the part of baptism, which is water baptism. I know that only Jesus baptizes by the Holy Spirit, and I have clearly said that in previous posts. I was only saying that water baptism is done by man, the baptism of the Holy Spirit by Jesus. Baptism, as a whole, does require both baptism by water and baptism by the Holy Spirit.

The church priest takes the infant to baptize them with water, so they were led to the water of baptism. It is only by the hand of God, known as the spirit of God, that baptizes with the Holy Spirit. The scripture in Acts have exampled that, by the word of our Lord, the Holy Spirit would be given by the hand of God.

I believe the spirit of God does manifest the revealed truth within the infant when God Wills. And the Holy Spirit is not given until the confessed belief of the begotten Son, Jesus Christ .

That is also why I believe infants should be dedicated to God as infants, and led to water of baptism at an older age.. when the reveal truth and quicken spirit by the Holy Spirit can offer the newness of life, and putting a cap on the old nature.

The intention of the church is good, but God is patient to manifest forbearance in accordance to HIS Will.

Edit: to add, it is also why Peter said the Gentiles who received the Holy Spirit must still be baptized of water..

I do agree with that.