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sndbay · Sep 28, 2009, 06:42 PM

Deu 22:28-29 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

sndbay · Sep 28, 2009, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by Altenweg

Then every man I know has committed adultery.

True, and is why God send HIS begotten Son to show us the way.

Originally Posted by Altenweg

As for the rest, yes, that is what I was looking for. Does the courthouse marriage count though?

Count to whom?

The Church = NO

To their family? =

To mans law? =

To them? =

Edit: Let me add there is one judge in the end..

classyT · Sep 29, 2009, 07:06 AM

Alty,

It depended on their cultures. Even back in Jesus time when He met the woman at the well and told her to call her husband. She replied I don't have one. He told her that was a true statement because she has had 5 of them and the man she was with at that time wasn't her husband. I believe every culture has had a way to marry whatever the process was. I absolutely believe that a courthouse marriage is just as valid as a church marriage. In our culture today having a legal document is how we define a legal marriage. If the courts are happy with it... I believe God considers it valid.

arcura · Sep 29, 2009, 10:51 AM

classyT,
I do not believe that.
I do not believe that a godless marriage is in God's favor.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

sndbay · Sep 29, 2009, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by arcura

classyT,
I do not believe that.
I do not believe that a godless marriage is in God's favor.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

What defines godless to your statement?

I recently attended a beautiful ceremony done by a Catholic notary, who was certified by state law to perform weddings. The ceremony was done with God's presences, and blessing requested, and the bride and groom wrists were joined by two braided ribbon in which both mother of the bride, and mother of the groom, had draped prior from their necks. Every prayer, scripture, and song that was heard came from the heart of both bride and groom. AND all were gathered together to witnesses what God joins from within their hearts to be one.

Maggie 3 · Sep 29, 2009, 07:14 PM

It is very important to understand that neither fornicators nor adulterers will
enter the kingdom of heaven,1 cor6:9-10 In today's world, the term fornication
is rarely used and immorality between unmarried people is commonly accepted as a lifestyle. But immorality, however commonplace, is a sin that will keep millions of people out of heaven, unless they repent. Paul also said this is a sin against the body.
1Cor. 6;18-20 "So run away from sexual sin. Every other sin people do is outside their bodies, but those who sin sexually sin against their own bodies. You schould know that your body is a temple for the Holy Spirit who is in you. You have received the Holy Spirit
from God. So you do not belong to yourself, because you were bought by God for a price. So honor God with your body". You should check yourself to see if you have the "Holy Spirit" in you, if you are reading
the bible, it sounds like you do not understand what it is telling you.

I pray the Lord will give you understanding of His Word.

Maggie 3

ohsohappy · Sep 29, 2009, 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by Maggie 3

It is very important to understand that neither fornicators nor adulterers will

Maggie 3

You realize that this is nearly half of the worlds population AT LEAST. That's a lot of discrimination for a God who loves us so much.

Maggie 3 · Sep 29, 2009, 08:14 PM

Matthew 7:13&14" Enter though the narrow gate. The gate is wide and the road is wide
that leads to hell, and many people enter through that gate. 14, But the gate is small and the road is narrow that leads to true life. Only a few people find that road."

I guess it won't be crowded in heaven unless one repents before their time runs out.

Maggie 3

ohsohappy · Sep 29, 2009, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by Maggie 3

Matthew 7:13&14" Enter though the narrow gate. The gate is wide and the road is wide
that leads to hell, and many people enter through that gate. 14, But the gate is small and the road is narrow that leads to true life. Only a few people find that road."

I guess it wont be crowded in heaven unless one repents before their time runs out.

Maggie 3

This is why I don't know if I even believe in God.
Quoting the bible does NOTHING for me.
PEOPLE wrote it. And PEOPLE change it.

Bet it feels good knowing that there's "more room for you"

I don't think heaven can even BE crowded, it's supposed to be infinite.

To each their own.

Maggie 3 · Sep 29, 2009, 09:11 PM

I choose to believe in God, He gave me an
Offer I could not refuse.

Maggie 3

arcura · Sep 29, 2009, 09:22 PM

sndbay,
What you described was not a Godless marriage to my way of thinking.
God was invited to be present there.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

sndbay · Sep 30, 2009, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by arcura

sndbay,
What you described was not a Godless marriage to my way of thinking.
God was invited to be present there.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Fred,

From what scripture says we are to obey the laws of our governement, which would include obtaining a marriage licence for legel permission. Would God count the marriage or joining of two by this legel process, the answer would be yes.

What you are saying in a godless ceremony or marriage has more to do with the individual's belief then whether the marraige counts. The marriages does count but their lives are absence from hope of salvation without God in their lives.

Do you see a difference? We can't discern the marriage as wrong when it follows the law of governement. What is in discernment is their belief not to include God in their lives and at the wedding.

Alty · Sep 30, 2009, 04:29 PM

I respect your beliefs, I really do, but keep in mind that the bible was written a very long time ago, a very different time then today.

How can you hope to follow the rules of that time when it has no basis on present day circumstances?

Back then they had slaves, we don't now. Back then, if your were pregnant and not married you were stoned to death, not now. The living conditions, the way they treated women, slaves, everything has changed.

How can you take the preachings of a book that is 1000's of years old and apply it to life now?

sndbay · Sep 30, 2009, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by Altenweg

How can you take the preachings of a book that is 1000's of years old and apply it to life now?

Because no matter what life was then or what life is today, it's not the best that is possible.. There is a better life.. a perfect life ahead.. A life that Our Father the Creator of the world prepared for us from the foundation of the world. The Word of God is the promise of all that Our Father has given us, what we need in FAITH to obtain HIS hope for us to inherit the Kingdom of God.

Without the hope given in forgiveness, without the love of God, and without eternal life, How would we have any hope for that better life or eternal life?

Alty · Sep 30, 2009, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by sndbay

Because no matter what life was then or what life is today, it's not the best that is possible.. There is a better life.. a perfect life ahead.. A life that Our Father the Creator of the world prepared for us from the foundation of the world. The Word of God is the promise of all that Our Father has given us, what we need in FAITH to obtain HIS hope for us to inherit the Kingdom of God.

Without the hope given in forgiveness, without the love of God, and without eternal life, How would we have any hope for that better life or eternal life?

That's were our beliefs differ. I don't believe in a God that intervenes with the humans or the earth that he created. I do believe that God had a hand in creating this world, but then he walked away, left us to our own devices.

I also don't believe that the bible is the word of God, it was written by men that claimed that God spoke to them. If someone did that today they'd be locked up in an Asylum.

I don't hope for a better life after this one. I hope for a great life now, while I'm alive and able to enjoy it. I don't think God would put us here to prove something to him. I don't see how the God of the bible, the loving God you all believe in, could make his creations suffer as much as he does. That's why I'm a Deist.

I also have to point out that your God, the God of the bible, is supposed to be a very forgiving God, so wouldn't he forgive someone that had sex before marriage?

This is why organized religion is not for me, because it makes no sense.

Maggie 3 · Sep 30, 2009, 06:10 PM

ohsohappy, & Altenweg
Time does change, but God amd His Word does no change. That's why we can depend
On Him. Phil. 2:19 & 11 "So that every knee will bow to the name of Jesus--
everone in heaven, on earth, and under the earth. 11 And everyone will confess that
Jesus Christ is Lord and bring glory to God the Father."

Maggie 3

Alty · Sep 30, 2009, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Maggie 3

ohsohappy, & Altenweg
Time does change, but God amd His Word does no change. Thats why we can depend
on Him. Phil. 2:19 & 11 "So that every knee will bow to the name of Jesus--
everone in heaven, on earth, and under the earth. 11 And everyone will confess that
Jesus Christ is Lord and bring glory to God the Father."

Maggie 3

That's why you can "depend on him" because you believe in the bible. I don't.

That's neither here nor there though, seeing as that's not the question the OP asked.

Surely you do have to take into consideration that 2009 is very far removed from the time of the bible.

There are writings in the bible about punishing a slave. Should we adhere to those writings as well? Wouldn't it be hard, seeing as there are no longer slaves?

I have at least 10 friends and a whole lost of relatives that would have been stoned to death, because of the bible.

Either you follow it to the letter or you make allowances. I think that sex before marriage is not clearly defined in the bible, also, the times back then were very different. The year, the people, the way we live, that has to be taken into consideration.

You wouldn't follow the advice of a book written in the 1950's because those concerns, the things they wrote about, no longer apply to our lives in 2009. Same thing with the bible. In my opinion.

letmetellu · Sep 30, 2009, 07:10 PM

I don't know the book, chapter and verse but somewhere it says in the KJ version "That if a man deflowers a virgin let him mary her"

My view is if two people in love and that are going to spend their lives together then they are already married.

arcura · Sep 30, 2009, 10:19 PM

letmetellu,
Perhaps so, but not legally.
Fred

Alty · Sep 30, 2009, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by arcura

letmetellu,
Perhaps so, but not legally.
Fred

But the OP isn't talking about legal marriage, she's talking about spiritual marriage, the joining of two people that love each other and know that they'll be spending the rest of their lives together.

No, there is no legal document saying that they're married.

I thought this was about spirituality, belief, God. God doesn't enter into legalities, or does he?