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momentofpurity · Aug 30, 2009, 06:05 PM

My question is as in the subject. One individual is living in the United States in Illinois, and the other lives in Canada. However, this would be on the grounds of online sexual conduct.

Hypothetically, the two individuals are talking online through I.M and that turns into sex related discussions. Both individuals state that they are the age of 19. One individual emails the other one after a period of no dicussion and after a few days, they begin talking again. Sexual webcam actions are done through the invididual in Canada, and the other individual in the U.S never does anything graphical sexual on their webcam. Each individual reaffirms their age of 19. Discussion is ended shortly after.

A day later, the individual in Canada receives an email from the individual's mother in the United States, sending a copy of the previous online conversation as well. The email states that the individual in the United States was of the age of 13, though not once did the individual in Canada know or reasonably believe the U.S person was that age, nor would the Canadian person have willingly engaged in conversation knowing American individual was that age. The email also states that the copy of the conversation will be given to the police for investigations into online predator charges, and potentially child pornography charges.

Now, the individual in Canada has no history of child pornography, nor does the person condone it. The person does not possess child pornography nor has the person ever done anything related to child pornography. As well, the person would never have willingly talked to the individual knowing the person was a minor. There was also no intention on physical meeting and actual sexual relations.

So, if the email was a legitimate threat and it was given to the police for investigation, could the police in the United States charge and arrest the individual in Canada under online sex offences? Especially if the Canadian individual had sent an email or two, with the IP address in toe?

If so, would the Canadian be extradited to the United States for criminal charging? Would that criminal charge follow him to Canada? Would the Canadian individual have any defence against the potential charge, even though the Canadian would be entirely truthful and honest? What would the charges be? Would the age deception of the United States individual be considered during the investigation?

Thanks for the help!

earl237 · Aug 31, 2009, 05:22 AM

Yes, Canada has extradition treaties with the United States and I heard a case not long ago where a man from British Columbia was charged with trying to lure a minor on the internet in Washington state. It is best not to talk to strangers on the internet, and never say or do anything that you wouldn't want to be seen in a newspaper.

excon · Aug 31, 2009, 06:27 AM

Originally Posted by momentofpurity

So, if the email was a legitimate threat and it was given to the police for investigation, could the police in the United States charge and arrest the individual in Canada under online sex offences? Especially if the Canadian individual had sent an email or two, with the IP address in toe?

Hello m:

I don't think so.

excon

momentofpurity · Aug 31, 2009, 04:23 PM

Interesting. Can anyone explain further? Was the man from British Columbia charged under something that seems similar to the issue presented above?

Excon, any other comments?

Thanks for the replies!

JudyKayTee · Aug 31, 2009, 06:23 PM

The man from British Columbia actually posted on this site.

He was over legal age, in the US. Corresponded with a minor in Canada, invited her to spend time with him in the US. She left her parents' home (I believe he paid for her ticket) and got stopped at the Airport in the US. He was caught with a room booked and condoms in his pocket.

He was charged with a whole lot of things.

And, yes, the US extradites under these circumstances. I have no idea (but I think I can guess) what the webcam recorded but certain images are a crime no matter what the ages are.

Difficult to stay what will happen next -

momentofpurity · Aug 31, 2009, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

The man from British Columbia actually posted on this site.

He was over legal age, in the US. Corresponded with a minor in Canada, invited her to spend time with him in the US. She left her parents' home (I believe he paid for her ticket) and got stopped at the Airport in the US. He was caught with a room booked and condoms in his pocket.

He was charged with a whole lot of things.

And, yes, the US extradites under these circumstances. I have no idea (but I think I can guess) what the webcam recorded but certain images are a crime no matter what the ages are.

Difficult to stay what will happen next -

Interesting, however I can see a stark difference though. He actually tried to meet her and actually made plans, as did she. And he was caught then. If there is no intention of meeting, nor were plans made, what would happen? Could they still arrest you?

And the male was from the United States? Was he born in Canada but living in the United States? Was he a citizen of the U.S?

In the issue I mentioned, there is no intention of meeting. Nor did they actually meet. In this case, it is an accidental case of hot chatting a minor after being decepted of age. Would someone still be arrested through this? Of course, there would have to be proof of the webcam video or images to be considered as well, would there not?

Would the United States talk to Canadian authorities over the accidental hot chatting of a minor, even though the online conversation the mother reported to the police had the minor stating she was of age?

earl237 · Aug 31, 2009, 06:45 PM

It's pretty scary and creepy knowing that the guy from B.C. actually posted on this site, I had no idea until now. It's great that Canada's conservative government finally raised the age of consent from 14 to 16. They had to threaten an election to get the other 3 far-left parties to go along with it, pretty sad but true. I think it should be 18 though like some U.S. states. It is really hard for Canada's conservatives to pass tough on crime laws because there are 3 other parties that are extremely left-wing and soft on crime. The Liberals, the socialist NDP and the separatist Bloc Québécois hold more seats together than the governing Conservatives which makes it hard for them to pass legislation.

momentofpurity · Aug 31, 2009, 06:57 PM

Yeah that is fairly creepy. Those people are sick. The ones who knowingly talk and want to meet for sexual purposes, a minor. Those people are absolutely disturbing.

But, and I know there will be people here that give me the stink eye for saying this, but there are people who I sometimes feel sad for, like the individual in issue I posted.

The person had no idea the other was a minor, and if there would be charges leveled against the person, they could be labelled a sex offender, and have that life pretty much ruined forever. Despite the fact that if the person was truly honest in saying they had no idea the other person was a minor, nor would that person ever had discussed anything with the minor if the person knew they were a minor... no one would believe that.

Strange world we live in.

excon · Aug 31, 2009, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by momentofpurity

Excon, any other comments?

Hello m:

In my view, jurisdiction would be a problem for the US. No matter what, he didn't commit a crime in the US, because he wasn't IN the US. Plus, there was no intent - a necessary element of a crime...

The internet changes things a little bit, but I don't think they can overcome the hurdles this case poses.

excon

momentofpurity · Aug 31, 2009, 07:47 PM

Thanks for the input excon.

Alty · Aug 31, 2009, 09:38 PM

I don't know the laws concerning this sort of thing, but I have to put in my two cents.

Because it is the internet, and is worldwide, I do think your friend can be charged. It would be very hard to control sexual predators on the internet if there was no way to charge them because of jurisdiction.

Sadly this is the risk you take when participating in sexual activities over the internet. I'm sure your friend didn't know the that the person he was communicating with was 13, but the fact remains, she was. Not knowing doesn't really matter.

The sad fact is, most people that perform sexual acts on the internet claim that they didn't know the age of the person they were communicating with. We do have to protect our children, even from themselves.

Just my opinion. :)

JudyKayTee · Sep 1, 2009, 04:12 AM

I disagree with Excon - this is the Internet. You can be arrested in Canada and dragged into the US if you are distributing porno and it's found on a US computer. I don't see the difference here.

I also realize it's difficult to determine age BUT I see teens posting on these threads and they really aren't very difficult to spot PLUS these two people had webcams!

I agree with Alty - if you are going to be transmitting sexual acts by webcam I think the defense that this was all innocent, that there was no attempt to meet, is going to be a difficult one. Only time will tell.

And as far as "our" member who was arrested he wasn't only arrested for attempting to meet the girl - he was also arrested for transmitting pornographic images (as I recall the wording).