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gilderdave · Aug 21, 2009, 04:18 AM

Looking to reinforce my fiberglass shower by putting a hole in the wall on the side and shoving concrete or somethng else under there. Any suggestions? Not cracked yet, but it' "giving." also- toilet squeaks when we sit on it, and it seems to be coming from the conical crome part that sits flush with the floor. The connection from the tank to the floor is rigid and we thing a flexible tube may alleviate this since it seems to be coming from the floor interface. Very annoying! Any help is appreciated.

speedball1 · Aug 21, 2009, 04:36 AM

You "puddle" mounds of cement or mortar under the base,(especially around the drain).You could also beef it up with 2 X 4s. Anything tp prevent sag and give. Swap your toilet supply for a flexible one,(see image) and see if that doesn't help shut that pesky squeak down. Good luck, Tom

gilderdave · Aug 21, 2009, 05:50 AM

Thanks. So you think I will be able to get access to put the crete in there? I need to tear out the sheet rock on the side to get to it, weave through the studs and get it in there some how. Any material suggestions? Applicator suggestions? A pole?

Originally Posted by speedball1

You "puddle" mounds of cement or mortar under the base,(especially around the drain).You could also beef it up with 2 X 4s. Anything tp prevent sag and give. Swap your toilet supply for a flexible one,(see image) and see if that doesn't help shut that pesky squeak down. Good luck, Tom

speedball1 · Aug 21, 2009, 05:59 AM

Just get your hands dirty and push it in. For those hard to reach spots you could take and make a tee with a Small board nailed onto a pole or 1 X 1 and push the cement into position. Good luck, Tom

gilderdave · Aug 28, 2009, 12:19 PM

Got the sheet rock off and I see a big hole where the drain goes down. It's a lot bigger than the pipe. Do I plug it so the crete doesn't go in the hole and through my ceiling? Though about wood blocks shoved in there. Also when you say puddle mounds, you mean little hills here and there? Just not sure if my subflooring can support a full load of crete under the whole shower. Thanks!

Originally Posted by speedball1

Just get your hands dirty and push it in. For those hard to reach spots you could take and make a tee with a Small board nailed onto a pole or 1 X 1 and push the cement into position. Good luck, Tom

speedball1 · Aug 28, 2009, 12:34 PM

when you say puddle mounds, you mean little hills here and there? Just not sure if my subflooring can support a full load of crete under the whole shower

That's what I meant. Not to fill up the entire area. I want support around the drain area. Cement or wood blocking will be fine but there should be no "give or flex" when toy step into the shower floor. Good luck. Tom

gilderdave · Aug 28, 2009, 12:44 PM

You did help me with the toilet, by the way! Thanks. Can't find where to click to give you credit for that. Gotcha on the little piles. Just need to know if I should block the hole around the pipe so the crete doesn't drip through. It's pretty big. Also noticed a smell from the drain and there's black stuff in there which I try to clean periodically. Keeps growing back and the smell returns. Pooled water at the bend in the drain.

Originally Posted by speedball1

[QUOTEwhen you say puddle mounds, you mean little hills here and there? just not sure if my subflooring can support a full load of crete under the whole shower.]

That's what I meant. Not to fill up the entire area. I want support around the drain area. Cement or wood blocking will be fine but there should be no "give or flex" when toy step into the shower floor. Good luck. Tom[/QUOTE]

cyberheater · Aug 28, 2009, 04:13 PM

I had to do this "after the fact" too once. Cheap pan. So, I used 2 x's and cut them to fit
snug with some plate gasket stapled to the top so the tops of the 2 x's to the joint between the wood and the pan.
I did this by crossing the box (the cement square or hole that surrounds the drain) at an angle three times (triangle) then I pushed mounds of cement around it. I had a hard time getting around it too, so I had to use a large kitchen utility spoon. I wanted a new one anyway.

It was very "supportive". (grin)

gilderdave · Aug 28, 2009, 05:04 PM

Thanks! The space I have is tiny no matter how much drywall I take off because of the design on the shower. I like the idea of wood around the drain hole because I'm afraid I'm going to dump a bunch of cement down the hole and through the ceiling! (second story bathroom) just trying to figure out what to put there to block it as I can't manipulate much in there... what's plate gasket and how did you use it? I didn't get that part...

Originally Posted by cyberheater

I had to do this "after the fact" too once. Cheap pan. So, I used 2 x's and cut them to fit
snug with some plate gasket stapled to the top so the tops of the 2 x's to the joint between the wood and the pan.
I did this by crossing the box (the cement sqaure or hole that surrounds the drain) at an angle three times (triangle) then I pushed mounds of cement around it. I had a hard time getting around it too, so I had to use a large kitchen utility spoon. I wanted a new one anyway.

It was very "supportive". (grin)

hkstroud · Aug 28, 2009, 07:25 PM

Some things to consider.

Using an expanding foam such as Great Stuff, to build dam around hole in flooring.
Using floor leveling material instead of concrete to support tub.

cyberheater · Aug 29, 2009, 03:05 AM

"what's plate gasket and how did you use it? i didn't get that part..."

It's a "foam" type material that is about 1/8"
- 3/16" thick that is usually used for placing under a sill plate (the 2x that you place on the foundation of a house before the rest of the walls and etc.)

You can use anything else that will work. I had left over from another job. I just did not want to ruin the bottom of the pan, and it wasn't a good one to begin with. This also help me get it in. I placed it around the drain like a triangle for strength.

The cost is about 5 bucks at big box in building dept area. It's about 5 inches wide and comes in a roll. "Sill Plate Gasket'. I just stapled it around the tops that would joint at the pan.

The spray foam sounds okay too, but hard to do it without getting it all over yourself in this situation. Cement rinses off easier and that amount of cement should be too heavy really.

I can't see what your sub floor is like, but that much cement shouldn't be too much of a worry for weight. It's important to support the weight near the drain. Leaks happen if it's not at that point.

One more thing...

If you do the 2x's and then cement method...

Place the fist board in farthest away first - add cement just behind it, then the connect the other two board together at an angle (I used a long deck screw just to hold it) then place that and place the rest cement around it. You don't want it moving on you after the fact.

If you can access underneath the floor where the shower is - you can place a screw through there too. You are just mounding around the 2x's for there support and more around the base. You don't need to go all the way to the edge of the shower pan.

gilderdave · Aug 29, 2009, 05:59 AM

Good ideas. I'd have to see if I can reach to do the great stuff. Drain is about 2 feet in. floor leveling material - what is it? Never worked with it. Would I apply it in little mounds like the cement or do the whole space? Applied the same way? Thanks again!:)

Originally Posted by hkstroud

Some things to consider.

Using an expanding foam such as Great Stuff, to build dam around hole in flooring.
Using floor leveling material instead of concrete to support tub.

speedball1 · Aug 29, 2009, 06:15 AM

Using an expanding foam such as Great Stuff, to build dam around hole in flooring.

It's not very often I disagree whit Harold but this is one of those times..
Expanding foam consists mainly of air bubbles. Just what do you think will happen to those air bubbles when a 200 pound plus dude steps in that shower? That's right, sports fans, they're going to compress leaving you with no or very little support. In which case the drain seal will rupture very shortly. Expanding foam's great for caulking holes but not very effective as a support material. Regards, Tom

hkstroud · Aug 29, 2009, 07:10 AM

Tom,
The foam is only to make a dam around hole to prevent the concrete from flowing down the hole. May be able to spray bottom of tub around shoe to close gap in floor.

Floor leveling is a concrete material that is mixed up thin enough to flow out. Should flow out and run under tub, supporting entire tub bottom.

Milo Dolezal · Aug 29, 2009, 07:20 AM

Please, keep in mind you don't need to insert the concrete under entire pan. You want to create several supporting points to prevent buckling. Mix concrete on dry side so it won't run. Pack it in with hands and as suggested above, with skinny, long piece of wood. Maybe, you will have to cut open wall on the opposite side, if possible, to get to the other side. Also, pan should have reinforcing ribs. If so, observe which one, and how much, it is lifted. Then shim it up with plastic shims. Push them in by hand only, than pack in the mortar. I am not in for the leveling compound since it has tendency to level on its own making it hard to keep up against the pan. Also, I am with Tom on the foam. We used to use it some years back. It was even recommended by some tub manufactures for tub support. But indeed, it will collapse under weight after while presenting you with the same problem. Do it the hard way: roll up your sleeves and get your hands dirty..

gilderdave · Aug 31, 2009, 04:35 AM

Here's some pics:

Originally Posted by speedball1

You "puddle" mounds of cement or mortar uner the base,(especially around the drain).You could also beef it up with 2 X 4s. Anything tp prevent sag and give. Swap your toilet supply for a flexible one,(see image) and see if that doesn't help shut that pesky squeak down. Good luck, Tom

Milo Dolezal · Aug 31, 2009, 04:49 AM

Nice photos. Indeed, they didn't reinforce the base. You can wrap old towel around the drain to prevent concrete falling through the hole. Keep pushing mixture of topping mortar or equivalent under the base. Mix it on dry side. Pack well. Make sure concrete touches the bottom of the pan. Don't let it get away. Come back in 1/2 hour and pack some more. Use piece of wood to push concrete in. You may need a bigger hole in the wall to do so...

hkstroud · Aug 31, 2009, 04:52 AM

Come on, cut out that drywall so you can work. Repairing the drywall is the least of you problems in this task. Surprised you can even get photos through that little hole. Is that view from the end or the side of the tub?

If you don't have any of that color paint, save a little piece of the drywall. Take it to Home Depot and have them mix you a gallon.

speedball1 · Aug 31, 2009, 05:07 AM

Harold's correct. You need to enlarge that hole so you can see what you're doing. Get some reinforcing under that shower floor. Good luck, Tom

gilderdave · Aug 31, 2009, 05:36 AM

It's from the side - the only access I have. The other side and the back are hanging 9' up in my foyer... I do plan to cut the drywall more. I just did that to get a look before I started... good idea on the towel!

Originally Posted by hkstroud

Come on, cut out that drywall so you can work. Repairing the drywall is the least of you problems in this task. Surprised you can even get photos thru that little hole. Is that view from the end or the side of the tub?

If you don't have any of that color paint, save a little piece of the drywall. Take it to Home Depot and have them mix you a gallon.