Ask Experts Questions for FREE Help !
Ask
    gilderdave's Avatar
    gilderdave Posts: 17, Reputation: 1
    New Member
     
    #1

    Aug 21, 2009, 04:18 AM
    Concrete under Shower Pan after it's installed?
    Looking to reinforce my fiberglass shower by putting a hole in the wall on the side and shoving concrete or somethng else under there. Any suggestions? Not cracked yet, but it' "giving." also- toilet squeaks when we sit on it, and it seems to be coming from the conical crome part that sits flush with the floor. The connection from the tank to the floor is rigid and we thing a flexible tube may alleviate this since it seems to be coming from the floor interface. Very annoying! Any help is appreciated.
    speedball1's Avatar
    speedball1 Posts: 29,301, Reputation: 1939
    Eternal Plumber
     
    #2

    Aug 21, 2009, 04:36 AM
    You "puddle" mounds of cement or mortar under the base,(especially around the drain).You could also beef it up with 2 X 4s. Anything tp prevent sag and give. Swap your toilet supply for a flexible one,(see image) and see if that doesn't help shut that pesky squeak down. Good luck, Tom
    gilderdave's Avatar
    gilderdave Posts: 17, Reputation: 1
    New Member
     
    #3

    Aug 21, 2009, 05:50 AM
    Thanks. So you think I will be able to get access to put the crete in there? I need to tear out the sheet rock on the side to get to it, weave through the studs and get it in there some how. Any material suggestions? Applicator suggestions? A pole?


    Quote Originally Posted by speedball1 View Post
    You "puddle" mounds of cement or mortar under the base,(especially around the drain).You could also beef it up with 2 X 4s. Anything tp prevent sag and give. Swap your toilet supply for a flexible one,(see image) and see if that doesn't help shut that pesky squeak down. Good luck, Tom
    speedball1's Avatar
    speedball1 Posts: 29,301, Reputation: 1939
    Eternal Plumber
     
    #4

    Aug 21, 2009, 05:59 AM
    Just get your hands dirty and push it in. For those hard to reach spots you could take and make a tee with a Small board nailed onto a pole or 1 X 1 and push the cement into position. Good luck, Tom
    gilderdave's Avatar
    gilderdave Posts: 17, Reputation: 1
    New Member
     
    #5

    Aug 28, 2009, 12:19 PM
    Got the sheet rock off and I see a big hole where the drain goes down. It's a lot bigger than the pipe. Do I plug it so the crete doesn't go in the hole and through my ceiling? Though about wood blocks shoved in there. Also when you say puddle mounds, you mean little hills here and there? Just not sure if my subflooring can support a full load of crete under the whole shower. Thanks!


    Quote Originally Posted by speedball1 View Post
    Just get your hands dirty and push it in. For those hard to reach spots you could take and make a tee with a Small board nailed onto a pole or 1 X 1 and push the cement into position. Good luck, Tom
    speedball1's Avatar
    speedball1 Posts: 29,301, Reputation: 1939
    Eternal Plumber
     
    #6

    Aug 28, 2009, 12:34 PM
    when you say puddle mounds, you mean little hills here and there? Just not sure if my subflooring can support a full load of crete under the whole shower
    That's what I meant. Not to fill up the entire area. I want support around the drain area. Cement or wood blocking will be fine but there should be no "give or flex" when toy step into the shower floor. Good luck. Tom
    gilderdave's Avatar
    gilderdave Posts: 17, Reputation: 1
    New Member
     
    #7

    Aug 28, 2009, 12:44 PM
    You did help me with the toilet, by the way! Thanks. Can't find where to click to give you credit for that. Gotcha on the little piles. Just need to know if I should block the hole around the pipe so the crete doesn't drip through. It's pretty big. Also noticed a smell from the drain and there's black stuff in there which I try to clean periodically. Keeps growing back and the smell returns. Pooled water at the bend in the drain.



    Quote Originally Posted by speedball1 View Post
    [QUOTEwhen you say puddle mounds, you mean little hills here and there? just not sure if my subflooring can support a full load of crete under the whole shower.]
    That's what I meant. Not to fill up the entire area. I want support around the drain area. Cement or wood blocking will be fine but there should be no "give or flex" when toy step into the shower floor. Good luck. Tom[/QUOTE]
    cyberheater's Avatar
    cyberheater Posts: 321, Reputation: 12
    Full Member
     
    #8

    Aug 28, 2009, 04:13 PM

    I had to do this "after the fact" too once. Cheap pan. So, I used 2 x's and cut them to fit
    snug with some plate gasket stapled to the top so the tops of the 2 x's to the joint between the wood and the pan.
    I did this by crossing the box (the cement square or hole that surrounds the drain) at an angle three times (triangle) then I pushed mounds of cement around it. I had a hard time getting around it too, so I had to use a large kitchen utility spoon. I wanted a new one anyway.

    It was very "supportive". (grin)
    gilderdave's Avatar
    gilderdave Posts: 17, Reputation: 1
    New Member
     
    #9

    Aug 28, 2009, 05:04 PM
    Thanks! The space I have is tiny no matter how much drywall I take off because of the design on the shower. I like the idea of wood around the drain hole because I'm afraid I'm going to dump a bunch of cement down the hole and through the ceiling! (second story bathroom) just trying to figure out what to put there to block it as I can't manipulate much in there... what's plate gasket and how did you use it? I didn't get that part...




    Quote Originally Posted by cyberheater View Post
    I had to do this "after the fact" too once. Cheap pan. So, I used 2 x's and cut them to fit
    snug with some plate gasket stapled to the top so the tops of the 2 x's to the joint between the wood and the pan.
    I did this by crossing the box (the cement sqaure or hole that surrounds the drain) at an angle three times (triangle) then I pushed mounds of cement around it. I had a hard time getting around it too, so I had to use a large kitchen utility spoon. I wanted a new one anyway.

    It was very "supportive". (grin)
    hkstroud's Avatar
    hkstroud Posts: 11,929, Reputation: 899
    Home Improvement & Construction Expert
     
    #10

    Aug 28, 2009, 07:25 PM

    Some things to consider.

    Using an expanding foam such as Great Stuff, to build dam around hole in flooring.
    Using floor leveling material instead of concrete to support tub.
    cyberheater's Avatar
    cyberheater Posts: 321, Reputation: 12
    Full Member
     
    #11

    Aug 29, 2009, 03:05 AM

    "what's plate gasket and how did you use it? i didn't get that part..."

    It's a "foam" type material that is about 1/8"
    - 3/16" thick that is usually used for placing under a sill plate (the 2x that you place on the foundation of a house before the rest of the walls and etc.)

    You can use anything else that will work. I had left over from another job. I just did not want to ruin the bottom of the pan, and it wasn't a good one to begin with. This also help me get it in. I placed it around the drain like a triangle for strength.

    The cost is about 5 bucks at big box in building dept area. It's about 5 inches wide and comes in a roll. "Sill Plate Gasket'. I just stapled it around the tops that would joint at the pan.

    The spray foam sounds okay too, but hard to do it without getting it all over yourself in this situation. Cement rinses off easier and that amount of cement should be too heavy really.

    I can't see what your sub floor is like, but that much cement shouldn't be too much of a worry for weight. It's important to support the weight near the drain. Leaks happen if it's not at that point.

    One more thing...

    If you do the 2x's and then cement method...

    Place the fist board in farthest away first - add cement just behind it, then the connect the other two board together at an angle (I used a long deck screw just to hold it) then place that and place the rest cement around it. You don't want it moving on you after the fact.

    If you can access underneath the floor where the shower is - you can place a screw through there too. You are just mounding around the 2x's for there support and more around the base. You don't need to go all the way to the edge of the shower pan.
    gilderdave's Avatar
    gilderdave Posts: 17, Reputation: 1
    New Member
     
    #12

    Aug 29, 2009, 05:59 AM
    Good ideas. I'd have to see if I can reach to do the great stuff. Drain is about 2 feet in. floor leveling material - what is it? Never worked with it. Would I apply it in little mounds like the cement or do the whole space? Applied the same way? Thanks again!:)


    Quote Originally Posted by hkstroud View Post
    Some things to consider.

    Using an expanding foam such as Great Stuff, to build dam around hole in flooring.
    Using floor leveling material instead of concrete to support tub.
    speedball1's Avatar
    speedball1 Posts: 29,301, Reputation: 1939
    Eternal Plumber
     
    #13

    Aug 29, 2009, 06:15 AM
    Using an expanding foam such as Great Stuff, to build dam around hole in flooring.
    It's not very often I disagree whit Harold but this is one of those times..
    Expanding foam consists mainly of air bubbles. Just what do you think will happen to those air bubbles when a 200 pound plus dude steps in that shower? That's right, sports fans, they're going to compress leaving you with no or very little support. In which case the drain seal will rupture very shortly. Expanding foam's great for caulking holes but not very effective as a support material. Regards, Tom
    hkstroud's Avatar
    hkstroud Posts: 11,929, Reputation: 899
    Home Improvement & Construction Expert
     
    #14

    Aug 29, 2009, 07:10 AM

    Tom,
    The foam is only to make a dam around hole to prevent the concrete from flowing down the hole. May be able to spray bottom of tub around shoe to close gap in floor.

    Floor leveling is a concrete material that is mixed up thin enough to flow out. Should flow out and run under tub, supporting entire tub bottom.
    Milo Dolezal's Avatar
    Milo Dolezal Posts: 7,192, Reputation: 523
    Plumbing Expert
     
    #15

    Aug 29, 2009, 07:20 AM

    Please, keep in mind you don't need to insert the concrete under entire pan. You want to create several supporting points to prevent buckling. Mix concrete on dry side so it won't run. Pack it in with hands and as suggested above, with skinny, long piece of wood. Maybe, you will have to cut open wall on the opposite side, if possible, to get to the other side. Also, pan should have reinforcing ribs. If so, observe which one, and how much, it is lifted. Then shim it up with plastic shims. Push them in by hand only, than pack in the mortar. I am not in for the leveling compound since it has tendency to level on its own making it hard to keep up against the pan. Also, I am with Tom on the foam. We used to use it some years back. It was even recommended by some tub manufactures for tub support. But indeed, it will collapse under weight after while presenting you with the same problem. Do it the hard way: roll up your sleeves and get your hands dirty..
    gilderdave's Avatar
    gilderdave Posts: 17, Reputation: 1
    New Member
     
    #16

    Aug 31, 2009, 04:35 AM
    Here's some pics:




    Quote Originally Posted by speedball1 View Post
    You "puddle" mounds of cement or mortar uner the base,(especially around the drain).You could also beef it up with 2 X 4s. Anything tp prevent sag and give. Swap your toilet supply for a flexible one,(see image) and see if that doesn't help shut that pesky squeak down. Good luck, Tom
    Milo Dolezal's Avatar
    Milo Dolezal Posts: 7,192, Reputation: 523
    Plumbing Expert
     
    #17

    Aug 31, 2009, 04:49 AM

    Nice photos. Indeed, they didn't reinforce the base. You can wrap old towel around the drain to prevent concrete falling through the hole. Keep pushing mixture of topping mortar or equivalent under the base. Mix it on dry side. Pack well. Make sure concrete touches the bottom of the pan. Don't let it get away. Come back in 1/2 hour and pack some more. Use piece of wood to push concrete in. You may need a bigger hole in the wall to do so...
    hkstroud's Avatar
    hkstroud Posts: 11,929, Reputation: 899
    Home Improvement & Construction Expert
     
    #18

    Aug 31, 2009, 04:52 AM

    Come on, cut out that drywall so you can work. Repairing the drywall is the least of you problems in this task. Surprised you can even get photos through that little hole. Is that view from the end or the side of the tub?

    If you don't have any of that color paint, save a little piece of the drywall. Take it to Home Depot and have them mix you a gallon.
    speedball1's Avatar
    speedball1 Posts: 29,301, Reputation: 1939
    Eternal Plumber
     
    #19

    Aug 31, 2009, 05:07 AM
    Harold's correct. You need to enlarge that hole so you can see what you're doing. Get some reinforcing under that shower floor. Good luck, Tom
    gilderdave's Avatar
    gilderdave Posts: 17, Reputation: 1
    New Member
     
    #20

    Aug 31, 2009, 05:36 AM
    It's from the side - the only access I have. The other side and the back are hanging 9' up in my foyer... I do plan to cut the drywall more. I just did that to get a look before I started... good idea on the towel!

    Quote Originally Posted by hkstroud View Post
    Come on, cut out that drywall so you can work. Repairing the drywall is the least of you problems in this task. Surprised you can even get photos thru that little hole. Is that view from the end or the side of the tub?

    If you don't have any of that color paint, save a little piece of the drywall. Take it to Home Depot and have them mix you a gallon.

Not your question? Ask your question View similar questions

 

Question Tools Search this Question
Search this Question:

Advanced Search

Add your answer here.


Check out some similar questions!

Pergola installed on concrete slab [ 4 Answers ]

I want to install a pergola on my concrete patio, if this can be done, how can I secure the posts to the existing concrete?

Wet carpet installed on concrete [ 17 Answers ]

I had a Florida room destroyed by Hurricane Wilma. I decided to enclose it and install impact-resistant windows. We took the Florida room down to the existing concrete slab (which is above ground). The room is beautiful, with all the windows, sheet-rock interior, stucco exterior and carpeting....

Can a glass shower door be installed on the edge of shower. [ 2 Answers ]

I just had a new shower installed and I wanted to put the shower door on the edge of the shower because the width is 29". Is there a way that the glass can be set on the edge without breaking the tile when installed?

Installing a concrete shower floor over a custom concrete pan. [ 4 Answers ]

I want to install a stained concrete shower floor instead of tile. I have already installed a custom shower pan and pitched it to specs. My question is should I be concerned about the new floor cracking since it will only be 1/2" thick? If you have any other suggestions on the install, please...

Can a solid oak floor be float installed on top of concrete? [ 6 Answers ]

Greetings, I have 20 square meters of 3/4 inch solid French oak flooring in 5 or 6 inch width. I have trolled the web pages looking for advice as to whether this material can be installed in the floating manner on top of a concrete sub floor. The opinions vary widely. Can this be done?


View more questions Search