[sndbay]

We have no right to change or leave out any part of Gods word. We
choose who we will serve. We are for Him or
against Him, His word is the Word of God.
If we all put in or take out what we want in the bible it
would not be only Gods word.
God loves all and receives all, we are all sinners and fall short in obediance.
God help us all and thank you for being a loving and forgiving God.

Blessings, Maggie 3

Yet realize that liberty to choose, was given unto all. Walk in righteousness or walk in darkness. The curse of sin was changed, and we were set free from the curse of sin.

Walk in the light of righteousness

I Corinthians 6:9-10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Isaiah 3:9 The shew of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide [it] not. Woe unto their soul! For they have rewarded evil unto themselves.

Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

[galveston]

The OP question about more churches following the lead of the Lutheran church reminds me of a bit of rhyme I heard a long time ago.

Inscribed on a tombstone:

As you are now
So once was I
As I am now
You soon will be
Prepare yourself
To follow me.

To which someone later added:

To follow you
I'm not content
Until I know
Which way you went


Matt 15:14 (Jesus said)
14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
(KJV)

[sndbay]

Matt 15:14 (Jesus said)
14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
(KJV)

As scripture has told us, many will calm to be teaches of Christ, and what they calm to do is in the name of Christ. (However, Jesus, also tells us )

Matthew 7:22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? 7:23:And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Point of Fact:

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

We can't count the number of times that we have been foretold of deception, and evil works that will come calming to be in HIS name.

Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Mark 13:6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am [Christ]; and shall deceive many.

Luke 21:8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am [Christ]; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

As the end draws near, we know there will be a famine for truth, because people are willing to give suck to the flood of lies that will come by the mouth of satan. Revelation 12:15-16 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

[cadillac59]

The OP question about more churches following the lead of the Lutheran church reminds me of a bit of rhyme I heard a long time ago.

Inscribed on a tombstone:

As you are now
So once was I
As I am now
You soon will be
Prepare yourself
To follow me.

To which someone later added:

To follow you
I'm not content
Until I know
Which way you went


Matt 15:14 (Jesus said)
14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
(KJV)

Such a loving Christian attitude! I know who's falling in the ditch and it's the demagogues with the flat-earth-society manner of viewing the world.

No one is going to accept any longer the kind of old fashioned bigotry and prejudice spewed by Christian religious leaders of a thankfully bygone era.

[paraclete]

Without turning this into an age old debate you know the word of God is plain about homosexuality

[adam7gur]

Faith in Christ gives us forgiveness from sin, and liberty to chose.

Yes! I only meant our physical death.Because of sin our bodies die and through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ we are forgiven and live with the Lord forever!

[cadillac59]

without turning this into an age old debate you know the word of God is plain about homosexuality

What makes you think I give a hoot what your make-believe word of god says? What does Thor or Poseidon think of homosexuality? That would be a far more interesting question to me. And it is exactly as meaningful a question. Your bible is a fairytale and you know it.

[adam7gur]

What makes you think I give a hoot what your make-believe word of god says? What does Thor or Poseidon think of homosexuality? That would be a far more interesting question to me. And it is exactly as meaningful a question. Your bible is a fairytale and you know it.

If so then you should be more interested in how to bring homosexual behavior in the church of Thor or Poseidon and not in the church of Jesus Christ.
If you challenge the church of Jesus Christ, then you should be ready for the church of Jesus Christ to answear you.The time will come for us to see what is true and what is a fairytale.If you don't give a hoot what the Word of God says,then why getting into all this?But the answear of course is that the spirit of the world cannot stand the Spirit of God that dwells among the Church of Jesus Christ.
Oh yes , it is a war and you know what? You have already been defeated!

[cadillac59]

If so then you should be more interested in how to bring homosexual behavior in the church of Thor or Poseidon and not in the church of Jesus Christ.
If you challenge the church of Jesus Christ, then you should be ready for the church of Jesus Christ to answear you.The time will come for us to see what is true and what is a fairytale.If you don't give a hoot what the Word of God says,then why getting into all this?But the answear of course is that the spirit of the world cannot stand the Spirit of God that dwells among the Church of Jesus Christ.
Oh yes , it is a war and you know what? You have already been defeated!

Yeah, the spirit of the world versus the spirit of god, blah, blah, blah... seems like the world's been winning.Go sell that tired old line to the credulous idiots that have populated churches for centuries.

I'm not challenging anybody's church, just saying what one courageous Christian church did to come into the 21st century and leave the barbaric world of bronze age Palestine.

You guys won't quit until you have destroyed civilization and turned the clock make on man's moral evolution 2000 years. No. You are not going to win, not without a fight.

[adam7gur]

Yeah, the spirit of the world versus the spirit of god, blah, blah, blah....seems like the world's been winning.Go sell that tired old line to the credulous idiots that have populated churches for centuries.

I'm not challenging anybody's church, just saying what one courageous Christian church did to come into the 21st century and leave the barbaric world of bronze age Palestine.

You guys won't quit until you have destroyed civilization and turned the clock make on man's moral evolution 2000 years. No. You are not going to win, not without a fight.

You have just invited legeons of evil spirits to penetrate you and they will be very quick to do so.
I also surrender you to your master, maybe your soul will be saved so, as your last chance!
May God help you!

[cadillac59]

You have just invited legeons of evil spirits to penetrate you and they will be very quick to do so.
I also surrender you to your master, maybe your soul will be saved so, as your last chance!
May God help you!

Fear, scare-tactics, manipulation. That's what is all comes down to doesn't it? Pathetic this sort of superstition still exists in the 21st century.

[galveston]

Makes me wonder why Cadillac bothered to post on a Christian thread.

Rev 20:11-15
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
(KJV)

You are not arguing with me. You are arguing with THE AUTHOR.

You lost before you started.

[cadillac59]

Makes me wonder why Cadillac bothered to post on a Christian thread.

Rev 20:11-15
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
(KJV)

You are not arguing with me. You are arguing with THE AUTHOR.

You lost before you started.

You are right. I shouldn't bother with posting on this board. If you want to believe this stuff, fine. But keep it to yourselves. Keep me out of it. As long as your preachments don't encroach on secular civil society (which they always seem to), no problem. As Christopher Hitchens once said, "it's like joining an S&M club, if you want to do so, that's your business, but keep me out of it."

Oh, by the way, this was my thread, but of course your board. Just a friendly correction.

[NeedKarma]

You are not arguing with me. You are arguing with THE AUTHOR.

Then how about a response from THE AUTHOR.

[galveston]

Then how about a response from THE AUTHOR.

You already have it. It is your choice whether to RSVP or not.

By your own responsiveness or lack thereof, you choose your own destiny.

You have a great privilege. Use it wisely.

[NeedKarma]

You have a great privilege. Use it wisely.

I know, I have. Thanks for your concern.

[classyT]

Cadi,

Your question is why don't other churches follow the lead?

Because it is a sin according to God's word. I have nothing against a gay person. I have nothing against a heterosexual couple who live in sin and won't marry. BUT I have something against a church who allows a minister who is living in a KNOWN sin to preach the word of God. I'm not talking about sinning. I'm talking about a sin lifestyle and there are many forms. Sin is sin is sin. It doesn't change. Incidentally I wouldn't want a pastor to get up and preach drunk either. I am NOT putting sin on a scale but when the Christian Churches start decidiing what is SIN and what isn't when the BIBLE clearly and plainly defines it... I wouldn't want anything to do with it.

Look, I'm no saint and have done plenty wrong in my Christian life. I heard someone on AMHD suggest that Christians pick what is right or wrong depending on what THEY want. Well I don't think I pick anything. It is what it is. I have sinned and Lived in it too... but I still KNEW it was wrong all the while. If I found a Church that accepted my sin, embraced it and said you are OK, you don't have to change.. then I would suggest they gave up Christianity all together. It is what Paul warned Timothy against... a doctrine of demons.

A Christian church should accept anyone because the Lord Jesus does. However the Lord Jesus expects us to change too. So should a Christian church. Read 1 Corinthians 5. Paul got on that church for NOT dealing with a known sin lifestyle.

This may rub you the wrong way.. but I didn't write the Bible and I sure ain't interested in RE-writing it. I'm willing to let God be God and I believe him at his word. THIS is the reason not all churches will follow the lead.

[cadillac59]

Cadi,

Your question is why don't other churches follow the lead?

Because it is a sin according to God's word. I have nothing against a gay person. I have nothing against a heterosexual couple who live in sin and won't marry. BUT i have something against a church who allows a minister who is living in a KNOWN sin to preach the word of God. I'm not talking about sinning. I'm talking about a sin lifestyle and there are many forms. Sin is sin is sin. It doesn't change. Incidently I wouldn't want a pastor to get up and preach drunk either. I am NOT putting sin on a scale but when the Christian Churches start decidiing what is SIN and what isn't when the BIBLE clearly and plainly defines it...I wouldn't want anything to do with it.

Look, I'm no saint and have done plenty wrong in my Christian life. I heard someone on AMHD suggest that Christians pick and choose what is right or wrong depending on what THEY want. Well I don't think I pick and choose anything. It is what it is. I have sinned and Lived in it too...but i still KNEW it was wrong all the while. If I found a Church that accepted my sin, embraced it and said you are ok, you don't have to change..then I would suggest they gave up Christianity all together. It is what Paul warned Timothy against...a doctrine of demons.

A Christian church should accept anyone because the Lord Jesus does. However the Lord Jesus expects us to change too. So should a Christian church. Read 1 Corinthians 5. Paul got on that church for NOT dealing with a known sin lifestyle.

This may rub you the wrong way..but i didn't write the Bible and I sure ain't interested in RE-writing it. I'm willing to let God be God and I believe him at his word. THIS is the reason not all churches will follow the lead.

Not all churches believe every book in the bible or ever passage is true. I don't accept the bible at all and I don't read it. I don't want it or anything to do with it. It's not picking and choosing it's simply a different belief system, one that's less dogmatic, one that rejects fundamentalist extremism. The views you express are extremist. You think because some ignorant sheepherder in the Middle East 2000 years ago who thought the earth was flat said something or wrote something and someone 400 years later tossed it in a book, decided it was god's word, that it is god speaking and has some relevance today. That's how stupid the whole thing is.

[classyT]

Not all churches believe every book in the bible or ever passage is true. I don't accept the bible at all and I don't read it. I don't want it or anything to do with it. It's not picking and choosing it's simply a different belief system, one that's less dogmatic, one that rejects fundamentalist extremism. The views you express are extremist. You think because some ignorant sheepherder in the Middle East 2000 years ago who thought the earth was flat said something or wrote something and someone 400 years later tossed it in a book, decided it was god's word, that it is god speaking and has some relevance today. That's how stupid the whole thing is.

Wow, I hate it that we are getting off on the wrong foot here... BUT CADILAC, do me a favor... don't tell me WHAT I THINK... k? You asked a question, I gave you an answer. You don't have to LIKE the answer. That is cool with me. If you don't care what the Bible has to say... why post the question in Christianity... why do you care what churches follow the lead on this topic?

I don't care what other Islam thinks about a topic ( not picking on the muslims just using them as an example... and I don't care if they change their doctrines to make other Islamic believers happy. I don't care and I don't post questions on that board because I don't care. I REALLY don't think the Quran is the truth and I don't get angry at the people who live by it. I think they are deceived. So... I'm wondering IF you don't care... why do you ask? I'm curious. Because it sounds like to me you DO care and you are a little angry at fundies like myself who believe the word of God is truth.

I think you have been hurt by some so called Christian.. that is my take and I could be wrong... wouldn't be the first time.

[cadillac59]

Wow, I hate it that we are getting off on the wrong foot here....BUT CADILAC, do me a favor...don't tell me WHAT I THINK...k? You asked a question, I gave you an answer. You don't have to LIKE the answer. That is cool with me. If you don't care what the Bible has to say.....why post the question in Christianity...why do you care what churches follow the lead on this topic?

I don't care what other Islam thinks about a topic ( not picking on the muslims just using them as an example...and I don't care if they change their doctrines to make other Islamic believers happy. I don't care and I don't post questions on that board because I don't care. I REALLY don't think the Quran is the truth and I don't get angry at the people who live by it. I think they are decieved. So.....I'm wondering IF you don't care....why do you ask? I'm curious. Because it sounds like to me you DO care and you are a little angry at fundies like myself who believe the word of God is truth.

I think you have been hurt by some so called Christian..that is my take and I could be wrong...wouldn't be the first time.

You are right, I have been hurt by Christianity, and that's because all religion always hurts everyone at some level or another. As a gay man, yeah, I've been hurt by Christianity that rejects me and who I am or tells me I have to be someone or something that I cannot be and don't want to be (like heterosexual). Yeah, that's a lot to be hurt about.