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sndbay · Jul 21, 2009, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by jenniepepsi

God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. does he speak and then not act? does he promise and not fulfill? Numbers 23:19

The generations of man is begotten of man, where as the birth of Jesus was the "only begotten son of the Father."

According to scripture the only way we can be begotten of God is throught Christ (1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to HIS abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead)

In the visible love, meaning the manifested love towards us, Jesus was sent (1 John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him ) So in Jesus we have a visible man showing us the grace/love that God himself wanted us to see in HIM

The scripture of (John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God) shows us the Jesus was with God and is God from the beginning. And it accounts for the plural idenity meaning of man being made in "our image" (Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth)

The plural of our image being man/Jesus, God/Jesus, and our likeness being Holy Spirit in righteousness. It gives us a pretty clear image of what God intends us to be by the begotten Son delivering and redeeming us as begotten again

I trust that the idenity of trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are the 3 idenities in proven witness of "ONE". You can not separate the idenities, or have them be one without the other.

It is very important that we acknowledge all 3 and realize that Jesus himself would never separate himself from the Father or the Holy Spirit in HIS walk as a man on earth. Nor when HE returns, will HE ever claim to be the God, but will be the LAMB of God.

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us

Jesus is the WORD made Flesh (John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

jenniepepsi · Jul 21, 2009, 08:22 AM

Wow sndbay that is an excellent way to explain it!! Thank you!

I trust that the idenity of trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are the 3 idenities in proven witness of "ONE". You can not separate the idenities, or have them be one without the other.

classyT · Jul 21, 2009, 09:48 AM

Jennie,

I believe scripture teaches that Jesus is indeed GOD and fully a man. I believe it is JESUS who spoke the world into existence according to the bible AND it was the Lord Jesus who walked with Adam in the Garden of Eden in the cool of the day. I believe it is the Lord Jesus who wrestled with Jacob and was in the fiery furnace with the 3 Hebrews. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.

I can't explain the trinity, but I believe the trinity. I believe them to be three in one.

arcura · Jul 21, 2009, 11:36 PM

I must agree with Adam.
The trinity is three person in one God being.
We each are a trinity made up one body, mind, and spirit.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

N0help4u · Jul 22, 2009, 05:37 AM

Originally Posted by classyT

Jennie,

I believe scripture teaches that Jesus is indeed GOD and fully a man. I believe it is JESUS who spoke the world into existance according to the bible

Yes three IN one.
(John 1:1)

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (NIV)
The word became flesh

(John 1:14)

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father. (John bore witness to him, and cried, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me ranks before me, for he was before me.'") And from his fulness have we all received, grace upon grace. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.

John's concept is pointing out and explaining the personal pre-existence of the one who came to earth. He is pointing out that the logos IS the creator himself.
The logos

adam7gur · Jul 22, 2009, 05:50 AM

Originally Posted by N0help4u

( No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.

John's concept is pointing out and explaining the personal pre-existence of the one who came to earth. He is pointing out that the logos IS the creator himself.
The logos

Note that the Greek text says the begotten God and not the begotten Son!

450donn · Jul 22, 2009, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by arcura

I must agree with Adam.
The trinity is three person in one God being.
We each are a trinity made up one body, mind, and spirit.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Do I understand you correctly Fred? Are you saying that we are gods?

N0help4u · Jul 22, 2009, 07:11 AM

No he is using the analogy of how we are made up of body, mind and spirit= three in one

Although one or two others have posted on here that we are gods.

sndbay · Jul 22, 2009, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by 450donn

Do I understand you correctly Fred? Are you saying that we are gods?

I trust Fred is saying we can be begotten again in Christ as (1 Peter 1:3) says.

As Christ is one with the Father and the Holy Spirit, we can be one with Christ and the Holy Spirit. Christ will dwell within us once we are begotten again.

It is my understanding that Christ came so that we can follow HIM and be begotten again, being born again of the spirit (Gal 4:33), unto a new man (Col 3:10). The newness of life we are dead in Christ by baptism, thus buried and able to raise has HE did in the glory of the Father (Romans 6:4)

This would be to comprehend the truth of One Faith, One Lord, and One Baptism. One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. (Eph 4:4-6)

jenniepepsi · Jul 22, 2009, 08:12 AM

I think I understand. But I can't get past the thought that yes while they are 'one' they are also Separate.

Like for example (I know, its an old horse lol) the egg. You call it an EGG. Its ONE EGG. Yet there is a shell, a yolk, and the white.

N0help4u · Jul 22, 2009, 08:13 AM

Exactly
They all have their distinct functions
God creator
Jesus redeemer
Holy Spirit comforter

Like a triangle with three corners it is still a triangle

sndbay · Jul 22, 2009, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by jenniepepsi

i think i understand. but i can't get past the thought that yes while they are 'one' they are also SEPERATE.
.

Not separable

Originally Posted by sndbay

I trust that the idenity of trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are the 3 idenities in proven witness of "ONE". You can not separate the idenities, or have them be one without the other.

It is very important that we acknowledge all 3 and realize that Jesus himself would never separate himself from the Father or the Holy Spirit in HIS walk as a man on earth. Nor when HE returns, will HE ever claim to be the God, but will be the LAMB of God.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

John 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

N0help4u · Jul 22, 2009, 11:17 AM

Not separable distinct yet one
Like a unit.

jenniepepsi · Jul 22, 2009, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by sndbay

I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

This makes me feel even more that they are Separate.

Jesus didn't say I am the true vine, and my father is the bush/leave/branch/fruit/ect.

A vine isn't a husbandman (gardener) nor is the husbandman the vine.

arcura · Jul 22, 2009, 10:25 PM

450donn,
What I am saying is what the bible says that were were created in the image of God.
There are a number of such similarities such as God can imagine and we can, God can create and we can, and more including that God is a trinity and we also are one.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

adam7gur · Jul 23, 2009, 01:36 AM

I think it can better described if we realize that everything comes from the Father.He is the source of everything.He gives birth to His Son at a time before time was even created,'cause the One that created time was the Word,The Father's begotten Son,The Begotten God!And if the Son is a Son then this simply means that at sometime before eveything, He was born.
I don't think we can say three in one,but I believe it is more accurate to say that the One God,the Father, starts everything by giving birth to His begotten Son,who cannot be anything less than God Himself,'cause God cannot give birth to something different than Himself as much as I cannot give birth to something less human than myself.
The Father is the source.His Son would have not existed if it wasn't Him who gave Him Life.That's why the Son says that the Father is greater than Him.If it is three in one then all persons are absolutely equal,but the Son says that the Father is greater than Him.

sndbay · Jul 23, 2009, 06:50 AM

Originally Posted by jenniepepsi

this makes me feel even more that they are SEPERATE.

Jesus didnt say i am the true vine, and my father is the bush/leave/branch/fruit/ect.

a vine isnt a husbandman (gardener) nor is the husbandman the vine.

When you understand the growth of the fruit branches and how the vine dresser takes care to watch over each branch carefully, it makes it easier to relate with what Christ was telling us. There are some branches that will fall down to turn away, and those branches if they are not placed back up to stay in the light will bury themselves in the ground of darkness to die. Other branches do reach for the sun light and grow abundantly in fruit. And of course this is the wine dresser's goal to have all branches reach toward the sunlight and become abundant in fruit. The wine dresser's job is hourly done through storms and good weather. Without the wine dresser,who is the husbandman, neither the vine or the branches would have life on earth. And I include the vine, because Jesus as man was the vine on earth, begotten of the wine dresser

In heaven Jesus is connected to the Father because He is the Word that was God, and was made flesh on earth as the only vine.

In reference: (John 15:1 and John 15:5)

a vine: Christ called Himself a vine, because, as a vine imparts to its branches sap and productiveness, so Christ infuses into His followers His own strength and life. Staying connect to the vine in righteousness that is sown.

Matthew 25:29 (we are all given Christ to follow, as the righteous fruit feed to us in the vine through the sap, but some will not choose to remain in the light/righteousness, and can end up having what was given, taken away, falling to darkness in sin)

Mark 14:25 and Luke 22:18 (the blood of Christ in sow in righteousness = sap from the vine productive in good fruit)

Jas 3:17-18 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

In reference: (John 15:1) husbandman: tiller of the soil, a vine dresser

Jas 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.

In reference: (John 15:5) branches: a tender and flexible branch, the shoot or branch of a vine, (the sprout from the vine)The spout follows from the vine.

Can you see now, why there is connection and are not separable? We are included in this connection by being begotten again in Christ (1Pe 1:3)

arcura · Jul 23, 2009, 09:33 PM

adam7gur,
I disagree.
The bible tells us that Jesus was/is the Word of God made flesh as the son on God.
The Father, Son (Word) and Holy Spirit are infinite and eternal. Neither one is older than the other.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

adam7gur · Jul 24, 2009, 03:12 AM

Fred
I believe that the Word of God is God's Son even before His incarnation.
And if He is a Son then this means that at some point He was born.
Again this is my understanding only!

Triund · Jul 24, 2009, 05:10 AM

Originally Posted by classyT

Jennie,

I believe scripture teaches that Jesus is indeed GOD and fully a man. I believe it is JESUS who spoke the world into existance according to the bible AND it was the Lord Jesus who walked with Adam in the Garden of Eden in the cool of the day. I believe it is the Lord Jesus who wrestled with Jacob and was in the firey furnace with the 3 Hebrews. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.

I can't explain the trinity, but I believe the trinity. I believe them to be three in one.

This is exactly what my teacher told me the other day.

Even today, Jesus who choses people, talks to them and forgives their sins. The voice they hear is of Jesus. They receive new life and they live their life for Jesus. There are lots of stories in media where men and women share their divine experiences.