[jenniepepsi]

I was being sarcastic (thus the "................"). I can give you a list of names of my high school classmates who were having sex and "backstreet abortions" and secret babies back in the early '60s.

They were not known as spinsters. Those were the women who never married.

Yes, unwed mothers were talked about, but not out loud, just in hushed whispers. Pregnant girls were sent away to an aunt's for "schooling" or "vacation" or "to lend a hand" until after the baby was born and given up for adoption.

Ahhh see, I misudnerstood the term spinster :) thanks.

I thought you were being sarcastic :P

[Wondergirl]

Our society needs to return to a moral society. Then and only then will this problem actually go down.

I grew up in that moral society. It was in small-town America where every family was Catholic, Lutheran, or Methodist. All went to church on Sunday mornings (no stores were open and no work was done at home either). Families attended church picnics and vacation Bible school in the summer, and, by the time you were 16, you were expected to help out in Sunday School or go to the adult Bible classes. The church was the center of social life.

If that society was so moral, why did the kids drive up to Devil's Nose by the lake and "park"? Why were there "submarine races"? Why was the ride called "Over the Falls" the most popular for teens at Seabreeze Amusement Park? Did the fact that, before it went up and over the "falls," each boat floated along slowly inside a very dark tunnel have anything to do with it? Why did so many dates start in town at a movie, go to Dairy Queen, and end up in a cornfield? (Do you know how well-hidden a car is in a summer cornfield?)

[jenniepepsi]

I grew up in that moral society. It was in small-town America where every family was Catholic, Lutheran, or Methodist. All went to church on Sunday mornings (no stores were open and no work was done at home either). Families attended church picnics and vacation Bible school in the summer, and, by the time you were 16, you were expected to help out in Sunday School or go to the adult Bible classes. The church was the center of social life.

If that society was so moral, why did the kids drive up to Devil's Nose by the lake and "park"? Why were there "submarine races"? Why was the ride called "Over the Falls" the most popular for teens at Seabreeze Amusement Park? Did the fact that fact that, before it went up and over the "falls," each boat floated along slowly inside a very dark tunnel have anything to do with it? Why did so many dates start in town at a movie, go to Dairy Queen, and end up in a cornfield? (Do you know how well-hidden a car is in a summer cornfield?)

Well said :D

[excon]

Hello again, Wondergirl:

I don't know. I grew up in a hip city to leftist parents who didn't go to church or Temple. I STILL wasn't getting any.

Maybe it was the cornfield. We didn't have any of them around.

excon

[speechlesstx]

Anyone who reads the pregnancy questions posted on this site will realize that today's teens have no interest in birth control. They can get it for free, easily, without parents knowing, but it's not something they think seriously about (especially not at that party at Suzy's house last week).

In a culture that promotes promiscuity, sexual empowerment for teens, that makes contraceptives – even prescription contraceptives - readily available to kids and abortion providers that still agree to provide abortions to minors without parental consent in violation of state law, is it really any wonder that kids don’t listen to parents? Society has taught them to bypass parental values and authority.

[speechlesstx]

That's what NOT to do. What is your solution TO DO when parents fall short with educating their kids, and the fall out is unwanted babies and tax payer burden.

Again blaming the parents for their 'shortfalls.' Why is it that no one else ever fails our kids, like Planned Parenthood and the schools?

[Wondergirl]

In a culture that promotes promiscuity, sexual empowerment for teens, that makes contraceptives – even prescription contraceptives - readily available to kids and abortion providers that still agree to provide abortions to minors without parental consent in violation of state law, is it really any wonder that kids don’t listen to parents? Society has taught them to bypass parental values and authority.

But the parents aren't the ones telling them anything. So why don't kids use readily-available birth control? Certainly teens have good common sense and know that a pregnancy can result from having sex...

[speechlesstx]

But the parents aren't the ones telling them anything. So why don't kids use readily-available birth control? Certainly teens have good common sense and know that a pregnancy can result from having sex...................

Not sure what you meant by that first line, but I don't really know that anyone, schools or parents can get through to many teens in the face of the culture they live in... but I'd generally rather it be left up to the parents.

[jenniepepsi]

Bottom line is, there isn't much you can do about it.

[ETWolverine]

I am biased on this answer....I for one, have been teaching my daughter, who is 5, all i can. (within reason of course! she is only 5) mostly about 'good touch bad touch' for now, and stranger danger.

i was raped when i was 11, because i didnt know what the guy was doing to me untill it hurt, in which case it was too late, he was 19 and very capable of holding me down.

we didnt have sex ed in schools (nor did my parents teach me about it) untill i was 13. had i KNOWN about any of it, i would NOT have followed this guy into the woods like he asked me to.

so yeah...i will be teaching my daughter as soon as she can understand it. i want her SAFE. i dont want her to go thru what i did.

but then again, im on the oposite end of the spectrum. yes...she may get pregnant as a teen...however, as horrible as it sounds, i would MUCH MUCH MUCH rather her have sex CONSENTUALLY, and on her own terms, and ENJOY it, than have her be raped.

being raped so young completely DESTROYED my chances at a NORMALY sexual life. fortunately my hsuband is patient with my fears and flashbacks, but my child should NOT have to deal with this...



wow sorry to rant...

yeah...i am completely FOR sex education! and i say it should be a normal part of the education process.

Jenniepepsi,

Your story is a touching one. I am sorry for the experience you had as a kid. BTW, I was also molested as a kid by a trusted adult, so I know a bit about what you are speaking.

I think that you are taking the right approach with your daughter. YOU are taking the responsibility to teach her what you think she is able to handle, rather than relying on a school system to do it for you. I salute you for this.

I happen to have a background in the martial arts. I am teaching my 8-year-old son and 7-year-old daughter how to defend themselves. (I'm not teaching them the stuff you use in sparring or sport fighting. I'm teaching them the REAL martial arts... how to cause real damage to an opponent, including broken bones, torn muscles, dislocated joints and unconsciousness. I want my kids to REALLY be able to defend themselves.) That is part of my daughter's anti-rape and my son's anti-molestation training. In my judgement, they are too young to talk about sex at this point, so I am waiting for what I judge to be the right time to educate them in that area. But that's MY choice.

The point is that I'm taking that responsibility on myself, not leaving it to their schools. Sex ed, including education about sexual predation, is too important an issue to leave to the state or the schools.

Thanks for your story. It is a compelling one.

Elliot

[redhed35]

In ireland it is a falsely held belief that if you have a baby you will get free housing.. however you can get on a housing list and usually within 3 years you will get free housing with reduced rent.
What you do get is a lone parents allowance from the social welfare,rent allowance,free medical,free dental treatment and when your child attends school another allowance to cover the cost of their education.
As a single mother you are entitled to a back to work allowance ALONG with your other social welfare allowances,grants for college,oh,and a child minding grant!

Sounds good.

Our social welfare system is broke.

My two teenage daughters are going on 17 and 18 and have only gotten one 40 min sex education class since they started school.

At the end of the current school year 3 girls under the age of 17 were pregnant in their school,and proud of it,as were there parents.

How the hell do you fight a system that only verbally bow hoos teen pregnancy,but supports it with their actions.

I would also like to say that I was also a teen mother,and used,yes used the very same system for two years,to further my education and become independent of the state.
The system here makes it easy to sit back and take advantage..
A time limit on social welfare supports should be in place,or at least policed so the recipient is forced to avaluate their situation and make improved ajustments to better their position.

[ETWolverine]

Hello 450:

I see a connection between the PILL and the sexual revolution. Now we simply need people to USE it. I suggest that what lies in the way of full compliance, is sex education - or the lack thereof.

I agree. The most effective way to use the pill is to have the female squeeze it tightly between her knees. Any other method of use still leaves the possibility of pregnancy, AND the possibility of STDs.

Morals has nothing to do with it. In fact, there are good and moral people who engage in non-marital sex. I know you think they're all going to hell, but that's another thread.

Excon

You're right, excon. Morals have nothing to do with it. But what you teach kids is what kids do. If you teach them about having sex, they will have sex.

For you, the goal seems to be preventing teen pregnancy because it's bad for kids. Not because of the moral issues, but because of the health issues.

For me, the goal is preventing teen sex because it's bad for kids. Not because of the moral issues, but because of the health issues.

And the fact is that preventing teen sex is less likely to result in teen pregnancy or STD transmission than teaching them to use a condom or the pill. That is a fact that you simply cannot spin. Unless you happen to be Christian and believe in the immaculate conception, it is impossible for someone who has not had sex to become pregnant. And even if you are Christian and believe in the story of Jesus, the liklihood of it happening AGAIN, 2000 years after the last time it happened, is minimal... much lower than the chances of getting pregnant using a condom or with birth control.

BTW, my wife became pregnant with my 2nd child while she was on a birth control pill. They aren't all that effective, truth to tell. And condoms break. They are less than 100% effective. And many STDs are not prevented through condom use anyway.

Teaching sex ed is much less effective a method than teaching abstinence.

In any case, the question isn't WHAT we should teach. The question is WHO should be doing the teaching. I think that's the parents' prerogative. You, as usual, want to rely on the government to take care of it for you.

I don't trust the government that far. There was a time you didn't either, but you've changed over time. The government should teach kids about sex, should take care of your medical care, etc.

What ever happened to your healthy libertarian distrust of government?

You've become a shill for The Man. It's rather disappointing.

Elliot

[cozyk]

Again blaming the parents for their 'shortfalls.' Why is it that no one else ever fails our kids, like Planned Parenthood and the schools?

Because ET doesn't believe in Planned Parenthood and the schools teaching sex ed.. So my question to him is where do they get correct info when the parent falls short. He says it is only the parent's job. He does not have a solution for when the parent does not do it.
I say don't complain if you don't have a better solution.

[speechlesstx]

The system here makes it easy to sit back and take advantage..
A time limit on social welfare supports should be in place,or at least policed so the recipient is forced to avaluate their situation and make improved ajustments to better their position.

Unfortunately our system works much the same way.

[speechlesstx]

Because ET doesn't believe in Planned Parenthood and the schools teaching sex ed.. So my question to him is where do they get correct info when the parent falls short. He says it is only the parent's job. He does not have a solution for when the parent does not do it.
I say don't complain if you don't have a better solution.

I think you missed the point. Whether Elliot believes in PP or sex ed in schools is irrelevant to my question. Why is it that no one else ever fails our kids, like Planned Parenthood and the schools? Why do people on your side of the fence on this always blame the parents?

[Wondergirl]

Not sure what you meant by that first line, but I don't really know that anyone, schools or parents can get through to many teens in the face of the culture they live in...but I'd generally rather it be left up to the parents.

Parents (and the church), if they tried (and most of the time, they didn't), didn't get through to the teens back in the '40s and '50s and '60s either.

[Wondergirl]

they are too young to talk about sex at this point

You've already missed the boat with them. Sex should be part of the conversation from birth on. You don't think their peers talk about sex?

[Wondergirl]

You're right, excon. Morals have nothing to do with it. But what you teach kids is what kids do. If you teach them about having sex, they will have sex.

Back when rocks were cooling, most of my peers' parents never said a word about sex to their kids. Mum was the word. Parents knew kids would immediately try it if they were taught anything about sex. We kids were supposed to figure out everything by osmosis. Most of them did by trial and error--in the back seats of cars, in hay lofts, in dark stairwells, at home where parents were out shopping, at home in the rec room with parents upstairs in the living room.

[450donn]

I grew up in that moral society. It was in small-town America where every family was Catholic, Lutheran, or Methodist. All went to church on Sunday mornings (no stores were open and no work was done at home either). Families attended church picnics and vacation Bible school in the summer, and, by the time you were 16, you were expected to help out in Sunday School or go to the adult Bible classes. The church was the center of social life.

If that society was so moral, why did the kids drive up to Devil's Nose by the lake and "park"? Why were there "submarine races"? Why was the ride called "Over the Falls" the most popular for teens at Seabreeze Amusement Park? Did the fact that, before it went up and over the "falls," each boat floated along slowly inside a very dark tunnel have anything to do with it? Why did so many dates start in town at a movie, go to Dairy Queen, and end up in a cornfield? (Do you know how well-hidden a car is in a summer cornfield?)

Really amazing WG you again did not read what I said. I said it would go down! I never said or implied teen pregnancy or the spread of STD's would be eliminated. All you as a librarian need to do is look at the statistics for the transmission of STD's and teen pregnancy and you can see when it really started it's climb. It was in the 60's.

[Wondergirl]

Our society needs to return to a moral society. Then and only then will this problem actually go down.

That will never happen. The worm has turned. You can't stuff the genie (I. e. freedom, personal rights) back into the bottle. There's no way to force this country into what you call a "moral society" again short of a nuclear catastrophe or some kind of decimation of the population where theocrats are in charge. Please hand me a burqa now already.