[Triund]

............ Especially those ones that try to entice you to pass it on like

"if you want to stand up for what you believe in, pass this on..."
"if this story touched you in any way, pass it on..."
"if you are not afraid to let the world know you believe..."

Of course, this is just another example of how religion tries to use fear, guilt, and shame to "entice" people to believe in what THEY believe in.

Your friend is just deleting these emails anyway... what good do you REALLY think you are doing?

People will not come to know God, whichever one it may be, just because they are on yours, or any one elses, email distribution list.

I do not forward emails to people because that have the lines like" if you don't send this to five of your friends, you will have misfortune ...and blah blah blah.....". But if the content in the email is good, or music and graphics are good, I forward it. Other than that, the emails I send to people, carry the links to some YouTube video, some website or a clip of a news, story, new resaerch or some incidence which I found on internet, from which I learnt something and enjoy it and feel that my friends should also enjoy that.

The reason for doing is that nobody has enough time to sit down and get every info available. We all share good news and good things with our nears and dears. We give them the headlines of the news and if they are want to know more in detail, they can do more research on that. And that`s why, I share Jesus and stories from the Bible and people`s testimony about Jesus or their lives with my friends who are both Christians and non Christians. I am not bringing horse to water, but rather taking water to the horse, knowing very well that horse will refuse to drink water. But I know that the horse won`t want to die of thirst. That is why I replenish the water in a trough for him. Yet still, if the horse is adamant to die of thirst, then I come out clean and dust off my sandals.

[Tj3]

many rituals and traditions in christianity have their roots in paganism.

I would agree if you said that many rituals performed in churches which profess to be Christian have their roots in paganism. But Christianity is defined by what scripture teaches, not by what certain churches or denominations choose to teach or in some cases add to what the Bible teaches. Many such denominations or churches have added pagan or other rituals into their denomination, or added traditions and other doctrines or beliefs not found into scripture into their theology.

that is a matter of opinion. Not every religion has an equivalent to hell. Not even every christian believes in hell.

Christianity once again is defined by what scripture teaches, not by majority vote on what certain people who profess to be Christian teach.

besides, believers of other religions feel just as strongly that their religion will save them and grant them eternal bliss. Believers of reincarnation, for instance, believe that living a good life now insures that they will be born into a better life in the future, generally culminating in an end to the reincarnation cycle and the right to spend eternity at complete peace within nirvana, the cosmic energy.

Many people believe in very strange things like worshiping Elvis. It does not mean all are equally right.

I'm just curious, what real consequences would i suffer right now if i didn't believe in the christian gods?

First of all, there is only ONE God, not gods. If you wish to criticize Christianity, you'd be far more effective if you found out more about what Christianity is beforehand.

and what consequences would i suffer in eternity? And what proof do you have of both?

First, you are taking this thread very much off course and the question that you are asking reaches into a much wider sphere. To tell you briefly, the consequences that you suffer are because of your sin. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. So the fact is that all of us are worthy of suffer the punishment, which in scripture is eternity in the lake of fire.

Too often people claim that God sends people to hell simply for not believing in Him. No, it is not that simple. It is because we first sinned and we are bearing the consequences of our sin, and have condemned ourselves.

What God did is that He came to earth manifest in the flesh, as a man, and went to cross that He might pay the price for us, and all we need to do is to accept that free gift, and this is where believing in Him comes in - and by accepting that gift, the price for that sin is paid and you no longer have to be subject to that penalty. Now, how would you accept a gift from someone that you don't believe exists or you don't believe is capable of doing what He said. So that is where believing in Him is important.

The evidence would take longer, and I am not prepared at this time to pull all that together because I am getting ready for a talk that I am doing tonight. Basically it comes down to the credibility of the source, and the evidence for the credibility of the source being what it claims to be is overwhleming.

I'm not being confrontational. I am honestly curious.

If that is true, might I suggest that you put the guns back in the holster, and instead of entering on the attack, come in and ask questions. There are many of us quite willing to answer questions, but when someone comes on here attacking Christianity and demonstrating very little understanding of it, that does not come across as curious.

[hheath541]

First of all, there is only ONE God, not gods. If you wish to criticize Christianity, you'd be far more effective if you found out more about what Christianity is beforehand.

I already apologized for my typo in a previous post. I didn't catch it before and I'm sorry for any confusion or offense it might have created.

I was raised devoutly christian and am well aware that there is only christian god. My fingers merely got ahead of me and added an extra letter.

[arcura]

Triund,
I agree with several who posted on this and Altenweg has made a good point.
Keep the door open but do not try to force religion on your e-mail friend.
Be gentle and kind and keep in mind that Christianity is a religion of attraction the way that Jesus himself set it up.
Prayer to the Holy Spirit id powerful and will work IF the Holy Spirit decides so.
So don't give up. The time may likely come when there will be a knock on your open door attitude.
If a person prays to God it is the beginning of a structured religion.
The holy Bible is full of structured religion.
Does your friend read the bible?
Perhaps your friend is referring more to organized religions has we have many of today.
Gently ask questions for more clarity so you understand better.
Invite questions from your friend about your belief.
Those are some of the paths you might use ti be more helpful and understanding.
Good luck. I pray that your efforts will eventually be successful.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[JoeT777]

many rituals and traditions in christianity have their roots in paganism.

easter started off as eostara, the pagan holiday celebrating the roman goddess of fertility.

'Christmas' is likely late Old English word Cristes Maesse, the Mass of Christ, originating around 1038.

I've always heard non-Catholics make the claim that Christmas was a pagan ritual, or that it had its roots are in a pagan ritual. Can you explain how you came to this conclusion? It would seem to me that the argument is a non sequitur; if it's a Feast day or Holy Day celebrating Christ's birth how is related to a pagan ceremony? Are you implying that early really practiced pagan worship? If this is the argument how and when did Christianity come into the picture? Christmas along with Epiphany was added to the least of the Catholic feasts days in the fourth century. Irenaeus (c. 115 A.D. – c. 200 A.D.±) and Tertullian (160 A.D. - extreme old age) omit Christmas from their list of feast days so it can be assumed that the celebration of Christ's birth wasn't as important In the early Church as it is today. That it was established on December 25th is no more significant than the correlation of your birthday with any one of the tens of thousands pagan feast days. I bet if you look, you'll find at least one or two. My birthday falls on the Feast of Epiphany, I wonder if that means I'm a wise man?
Source: CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Christmas

The origin of the word Easter is unknown. The Roman Goddess of fertility was Bona Dea. The name of mythological goddess Bona Dea means "the good goddess". She was the Goddess of healing, virginity, women, as well as fertility. Sometimes called Fauna she was the daughter of Faunus. (don't ask who he is, haven't a clue) How did you get Easter out of Bona Dea? If you're referring to the Teutonic goddess of the rising light of day and spring, her name is Edda. Doesn't seem to fit does it? Easter --> Edda; I can't make the connection with 'Easter'. Do you make this stuff up all the time?

Easter is the celebration of the Chris's resurrection. It was during the Jewish Passover that Christ was crucified, died, was buried, descended into hell, on the third day he rose from the dead.

JoeT

[arcura]

JoeT777,
Well said. I agree.
There is NO pagan connection.
Fred

[Tj3]

The origin of the word Easter is unknown. The Roman Goddess of fertility was Bona Dea. The name of mythological goddess Bona Dea means "the good goddess". She was the Goddess of healing, virginity, women, as well as fertility. Sometimes called Fauna she was the daughter of Faunus. (don’t ask who he is, haven’t a clue) How did you get Easter out of Bona Dea? If you’re referring to the Teutonic goddess of the rising light of day and spring, her name is Edda. Doesn’t seem to fit does it? Easter --> Edda; I can’t make the connection with 'Easter'. Do you make this stuff up all the time?

No need to be rude to him. He has a point. Easter is named after the pagan god Ishtar, and the holiday was created by Constantine just after he formed the Roman Catholic denomination. He issued a letter (which was quite anti-semitic) the translation of which I can post here if you wish, which order that the date of the celebration of Easter be moved from the date of Passover (which is what it originally was) in order to avoid being associated with the Jews.

Easter is the celebration of the Chris’s resurrection. It was during the Jewish Passover that Christ was crucified, died, was buried, descended into hell, on the third day he rose from the dead.

I agree that it is the celebration of Christ's death and resurrection, but there is certainly a bit of an ugly side regarding the date of and naming of Easter that, if we are to be honest, we cannot deny.

[hheath541]

‘Christmas’ is likely late Old English word Cristes Maesse, the Mass of Christ, originating around 1038.

I’ve always heard non-Catholics make the claim that Christmas was a pagan ritual, or that it had its roots are in a pagan ritual. Can you explain how you came to this conclusion? It would seem to me that the argument is a non sequitur; if it’s a Feast day or Holy Day celebrating Christ’s birth how is related to a pagan ceremony? Are you implying that early really practiced pagan worship? If this is the argument how and when did Christianity come into the picture? Christmas along with Epiphany was added to the least of the Catholic feasts days in the fourth century. Irenaeus (c. 115 A.D. – c. 200 A.D.±) and Tertullian (160 A.D. - extreme old age) omit Christmas from their list of feast days so it can be assumed that the celebration of Christ’s birth wasn’t as important In the early Church as it is today. That it was established on December 25th is no more significant than the correlation of your birthday with any one of the tens of thousands pagan feast days. I bet if you look, you’ll find at least one or two. My birthday falls on the Feast of Epiphany, I wonder if that means I’m a wise man?
Source: CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Christmas

The origin of the word Easter is unknown. The Roman Goddess of fertility was Bona Dea. The name of mythological goddess Bona Dea means "the good goddess". She was the Goddess of healing, virginity, women, as well as fertility. Sometimes called Fauna she was the daughter of Faunus. (don’t ask who he is, haven’t a clue) How did you get Easter out of Bona Dea? If you’re referring to the Teutonic goddess of the rising light of day and spring, her name is Edda. Doesn’t seem to fit does it? Easter --> Edda; I can’t make the connection with 'Easter'. Do you make this stuff up all the time?

Easter is the celebration of the Chris’s resurrection. It was during the Jewish Passover that Christ was crucified, died, was buried, descended into hell, on the third day he rose from the dead.

JoeT

I never said that christmas was a pagan ritual, just that a pagan ritual was displaced to make way for christmas. If you look into the history of christmas, which you obviously have, and the history of christianity's spread to northern europe, specifically england and ireland, you'll notice that christmas essentially came about at around the same time that the catholic church started converting the english isles. In order to hasten the conversion process and eliminate the pagan religions faster the church found ways to twist some of the pagan beliefs, and even holidays, to fit their message. It was a common practice in the early days of christianity. As I stated before, they turned the pagan celebration of the birth of the sun god into the christian celebration of the birth of the son of god. The fact that it now falls on December 25 has more to do with the restructuring of the calendar done by Pope Gregory XIII in 1582. The pagan holiday of yule actually falls on the winter equinox, which generally falls on December 21.
Origin of Christmas

The word easter is most likely from Ostara, also called Eostre or Eastre, (sorry, I got the spelling wrong before). No matter which way it's spelled (which depends on which land in which the goddess was worshiped and the particular dialect), she was always a goddess of spring and fertility, among other things. The rabbit and hen were seen as sacred to her, as symbols of fertility and rebirth. Easter is still celebrated on the same day that the ancient, pagan ritual was observed on; the first Sunday after the first fullmoon following the spring equinox (which is why it moves so much from year to year). Christians saw the holiday as a convenient day to celebrate what was first passover and then turned into a celebration of jesus' resurrection. The celebration of spring, which was seen as the rebirth of nature, seemed like the perfect day to celebrate the rebirth of christ. It was also a handy way to settle a debate that had been troubling the church for several years, when to celebrate a previously jewish holiday that was becoming increasingly more christian.
Pagan Roots of Easter Customs: Here Comes Ol? Cottontail?. | Suite101.com

What is the origin of Easter? - ChristianAnswers.Net

The Real Meaning of Easter

Easter, the History, Date, and Contemporary Meaning


Sorry I have more links for easter than christmas, but the information is more patchy concerning easter because it the conversion from ostara to easter was less seamless than that of yule to christmas. Some of the links under easter have information on christmas as well.

Once again, I don't claim that easter or christmas as pagan holidays or that early christians were worshiping pagan gods. They merely saw a way to convert the northern europeans to christianity by changing the reason behind some of their holidays. It's easier to change the meaning behind a celebration than to outlaw it. The early christians saw nothing wrong with creatively twisting a few words, tweaking a phrase, or adapting native customs if it meant that converting was easier and 'held' better.

[JoeT777]

No need to be rude to him. He has a point. Easter is named after the pagan god Ishtar, and the holiday was created by Constantine just after he formed the Roman Catholic denomination. He issued a letter (which was quite anti-semitic) the translation of which I can post here if you wish, which order that the date of the celebration of Easter be moved from the date of Passover (which is what it originally was) in order to avoid being associated with the Jews.



I agree that it is the celebration of Christ's death and resurrection, but there is certainly a bit of an ugly side regarding the date of and naming of Easter that, if we are to be honest, we cannot deny.

There’s a difference between being rude and emphatic. Such nonsense as this is just plain simple stupid (FYI, that’s an emphatic statement not a rude one).

Ishtar is the Babylonian goddess of sex not Roman – which way do you want to spin, a pagan Roman holiday or a pagan Babylonian holiday? What relationship would there be between Constantine and Ishtar? And how does Ishtar relate to the fact that the date of Easter is calculated different from that of Passover? The point is that your schismatic man made traditions don’t change the fact that Easter, as we know it today, as it was known in the early Church was a Christian Holy observance of Christ’s crucifixion, death, and resurrection. There is no ugly side to it, because there is simply no connection.

JoeT

[450donn]

What has any of this got to do with the OP's topic. Moderator needs to close this thread as it has drifted way too far off topic!

[JoeT777]

i never said that christmas was a pagan ritual, just that a pagan ritual was displaced to make way for christmas. if you look into the history of christmas, which you obviously have, and the history of christianity's spread to northern europe, specifically england and ireland, you'll notice that christmas essentially came about at around the same time that the catholic church started converting the english isles. in order to hasten the conversion process and eliminate the pagan religions faster the church found ways to twist some of the pagan beliefs, and even holidays, to fit their message. it was a common practice in the early days of christianity. as i stated before, they turned the pagan celebration of the birth of the sun god into the christian celebration of the birth of the son of god. the fact that it now falls on December 25 has more to do with the restructuring of the calendar done by Pope Gregory XIII in 1582. the pagan holiday of yule actually falls on the winter equinox, which generally falls on December 21.
Origin of Christmas

I took the inference as implying that the Christian Feast days were pagan ritual. It's usually couched that way, so I apologize for my bad assumption.

Pantheons, sun gods, moon gods, or goddess dressed in skimpy outfits didn't have anything to do with the establishment of the December 25th as Christmas. It had to do with religious scholars and theologians establishing, as best they could, the Feast day of Christmas. I'd also suggest that Yule folks, logs or equinox didn't have anything to do with it either. The point is that Christmas, as well as Easter, are uniquely Christian Feast days and paganism cannot be legitimately imprinted onto these feast days. One doesn't have anything to do with the other except maybe to share a date on the calendar.

the word easter is most likely from Ostara, also called Eostre or Eastre, (sorry, i got the spelling wrong before). no matter which way it's spelled (which depends on which land in which the goddess was worshiped and the particular dialect), she was always a goddess of spring and fertility, among other things. the rabbit and hen were seen as sacred to her, as symbols of fertility and rebirth. easter is still celebrated on the same day that the ancient, pagan ritual was observed on; the first Sunday after the first fullmoon following the spring equinox (which is why it moves so much from year to year). christians saw the holiday as a convenient day to celebrate what was first passover and then turned into a celebration of jesus' resurrection. the celebration of spring, which was seen as the rebirth of nature, seemed like the perfect day to celebrate the rebirth of christ. it was also a handy way to settle a debate that had been troubling the church for several years, when to celebrate a previously jewish holiday that was becoming increasingly more Christian.

Pagan Roots of Easter Customs: Here Comes Ol? Cottontail?. | Suite101.com

What is the origin of Easter? - ChristianAnswers.Net

The Real Meaning of Easter

Easter, the History, Date, and Contemporary Meaning


sorry i have more links for easter than christmas, but the information is more patchy concerning easter because it the conversion from ostara to easter was less seamless than that of yule to christmas. some of the links under easter have information on christmas as well.

And they would be all conjecture. They are all based on the speculation that the phonetic similarity creates a link. To my knowledge there is no credible link. One of your references suggested a Babylonian origin, another suggested that it was Teutonic. One said it was both. So which pagan goddess do you prefer?

once again, i don't claim that easter or christmas as pagan holidays or that early christians were worshiping pagan gods. they merely saw a way to convert the northern europeans to christianity by changing the reason behind some of their holidays. it's easier to change the meaning behind a celebration than to outlaw it. the early christians saw nothing wrong with creatively twisting a few words, tweaking a phrase, or adapting native customs if it meant that converting was easier and 'held' better.

I have a different opinion, which was more likely the case, that the Christian Holy day of Easter fell on a certain date which happens to be in the spring coinciding with thousands of pagan societies' worship of spring goddesses. Later folks such as the Paganism/Wicca (your link --- you do see the inappropriateness of the link, don't you?) with vested interests decided they would connect Christianity with paganism. What might their motif be? But, regardless of the motif, to base such theories on a phonic similarity is disingenuous.

What has any of this got to do with the OP's topic. Moderator needs to close this thread as it has drifted way too far off topic!

Why?

JoeT

[Tj3]

There's a difference between being rude and emphatic. Such nonsense as this is just plain simple stupid (FYI, that's an emphatic statement not a rude one).

I think you were crossed the line to rude.

Ishtar is the Babylonian goddess of sex not Roman

I said "pagan" not "Roman". Read again.

What relationship would there be between Constantine and Ishtar?

Constantine was trying to make the church a cross between paganism and Christianity so that it would appeal to the pagans under his rule.

And how does Ishtar relate to the fact that the date of Easter is calculated different from that of Passover?

You apparently did not read what I said - it was all clearly explained.

The point is that your schismatic man made traditions don't change the fact that Easter,

Right - the traditions of the Constantine were schismatic, but they are not mine. Constantine stated that his intend was to separate the church from the Jews. I could and will quote excerpts if you wish to carry on.

[Tj3]

What has any of this got to do with the OP's topic. Moderator needs to close this thread as it has drifted way too far off topic!

Agreed.

[hheath541]

What has any of this got to do with the OP's topic. Moderator needs to close this thread as it has drifted way too far off topic!

I agree, and I apologize. I will move my post to a separate topic, where those who wish to continue the discussion can follow me.

Here's a link for anyone who wishes to follow me there.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/christ...ys-371457.html

[arcura]

Joe,
I agree with you and it is part of one structured religion.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[Pushtumpa]

Religion and Christianity has been structured from shortly after the death of Christ.

.

Hinduism goes back about 20,000 years, and is recognised as a religion. To say that Religion has been structured since the birth of Christ ignores several Religions.

Christ was born just over 2000 years ago. You are out by a factor of ten. Or don't you recognise other religions?

[classyT]

It has been quite long since anyone posted a question, so here I go.

I love to share good stuff with my friends through emails, especially Christian things which I come across internet. One of my friends, deletes my email when she finds that it contains Christain material. She says that she is not going to follow a structured religion. She says her prayers to God, but not in the name of Lord Jesus. About Christianity, she says that pastors and church leaders do/had sexually expolited people so she can not be a Christian. I explained her that coming to Jesus is having a relationship with Jesus and believing in Him is not a structured religion. Yet she is pretty adamant. I remember her in my prayers for her to come to Lord Jesus. I know that only Holy Spirit can change a person.

Should I keep trying to reach her or am I wasting my time and should "dust off my sandals?".

If she will give you her ear, I say keep planting the seed whenever you can. I had someone tell me once not to ever bring up salvation or Jesus Christ to him again. In that case, I dusted my shoes but still pray for him. It is funny because every now and again HE will bring up Christianity.. in those instances I am usually careful but I always speak the truth. So I say keep on a plantin... never know how the Holy Spirit will use it!

[arcura]

Pushtumpa,
I think Fr Chuck was talking about the religion of Christianity and not purposely ignoring other religions.
At least that is the way I read it.
Peace and kindness,
Fred.

[Fr_Chuck]

This is the Christianity area and discussion is to be on that topic,

From other posts I place Pushtumpa on the troll list myself as one just looking to pick words apart.

He would have known what was being said but perfered to complain

[homesell]

In addition to what Fr_chuck said, there is absolutely NO evidence that hinduism has been around some 20,000 years. (There is no evidence of ANY religious activity beyond 6500 years ago.) Even if you count it as one of the earliest religions, it is still polytheistic(many Gods) while Judaism is recognised by ALL scholars(Bible AND secular) as the first monotheistic(One God) religion.