[Tj3]

And will your belief stand the test of time?

It has lasted for the past several thousand years, and for me personally for several decades, and the more that I look into the details, the more amazed that I am at the incredible amount of evidence to validate the Christian faith.

If you wanted to kiss me and I told you I didn't want to be kissed, that I don't like being kissed, that kissing is not something I do, would you still kiss me? After all, I didn't say no, not outright.

No, my wife would be pretty upset with me :D

But to the point, that is not remotely the same. We are not talking about some 16 yr old boy trying to get a thrill from a girl in a parked car. We are talking about a situation where a person can choose to read, or choose to delete email, and has not said to stop, and where those emails could make a difference between eternity life, and eternity in hell.

There's a word for people who don't take hell no for an answer.

Where did she say "No"?

[Alty]

No, my wife would be pretty upset with me

Your wife would be the least of your worries. ;)

We are talking about a situation where a person can choose to read, or choose to delete email, and has not said to stop

Friends often find it hard to flat out tell their friend that they don't like what they're doing and they want it to stop.

What she has already said speaks loud and clear, if you listen.

those emails could make a difference between eternity life, and eternity in hell.

That's not what the OP's friend believes, that's what you believe.

I realize that as a Christian you don't understand the OP's friend; point of view. I do.

We're not going to agree on this Tom.

If the OP continues what he's doing I'm sure things will come to a head soon. Hopefully, when she screams no, he'll listen. Apparently she's being too subtle, even though I read it loud and clear.

[JoeT777]

When asked how best to evangelize St. Francis said, “Preach the Gospel at all times; when necessary, use words. I understand this to mean evangelization is done best by living out one's Catholic faith; it's the example that says volumes.

JoeT

[NeedKarma]

I understand this to mean evangelization is done best by living out one’s Catholic faith; it’s the example that says volumes.

Joe, I agree with you.

[Tj3]

Your wife would be the least of your worries. ;)

Well, we will never know, because I would not have any interest in any case!

Friends often find it hard to flat out tell their friend that they don't like what they're doing and they want it to stop.

It depends upon the relationship. Since it appears that neither you nor I are involved in that relationship between those two friends, it seems to me that those who are, are best placed to make that call as to the intent of her comments. I am happy to leave it with him.

You apparently feel that you can judge the situation without knowing that important detail. I don't agree.

[Alty]

Well, we will never know, because I would not have any interest in any case!

Well, my attempt to lighten the mood didn't work well, did it?

Tom, really, you wouldn't have a snowballs chance in hell. That's not a belief, that's a fact, they're what I deal with.

[hheath541]

I have to agree with alten, and joe. Continuing to send emails she has no desire to receive, let alone read will accomplish nothing other than to convince her even further that christians are pushy and are only out to make everyone believe what they believe. The best way to influence her opinion is to live by example. Show her with your actions that not all christians are the same, instead of preaching to her at every opportunity.

If you still want to send her emails you can just remove overtly religious messages. Anything that ends with anything along the lines of "forward this message and you will be saved," "if you don't forward this message you are denying god," or scripture verse of any kind is probably a bad idea. I find that most of the religiously-toned emails I get have the same impact if you just remove the last line or two, which is usually the ONLY part that has a religious message. Since your friend prays, I doubt she would be offended by emails mentioning prayer.

Now, just to address a personal quibble. Tj3, there are many religions that are much older than christianity. If you place so much worth in how long a religion has been alive, then christianity is losing. Hinduism, shamanism, judaism, and many forms of paganism (just to name a few offhand) have been around for hundreds, in some cases thousands, of years longer than christianity. The followers of those religions will tell you just as certainly as you are telling us that there has been proof through it all that their religion is true. The length of time a particular belief system has been around says more about the strength of the believers and the ability of the message to last through time than the validity or truth behind it.

[Tj3]

Well, my attempt to lighten the mood didn't work well, did it?

Oh Alty, apparently you did not see my response to your original "joke". Oh well.

It would help the mood if you would converse with us a bit more, rather than just assume that we know nothing and then come down on us if we don't agree with you.

I'd love to sometime have a chance to really have a good open discussion with you, without the "barbs". I've tried, but it takes two.

[Tj3]

Now, just to address a personal quibble. Tj3, there are many religions that are much older than christianity. If you place so much worth in how long a religion has been alive, then christianity is losing. Hinduism, shamanism, judaism, and many forms of paganism (just to name a few offhand) have been around for hundreds, in some cases thousands, of years longer than christianity.

First, Christianity is an extension of Judaism, and this religion goes back to the time of creation, so I am not sure how much older you can get than that. Christianity is simply a term given to those who follow the religion that started with Adam and Eve, carried on through the Jewish nation. It prophesied the coming of Christ, and those who followed the Messiah when He came were called Christians.

the followers of those religions will tell you just as certainly as you are telling us that there has been proof through it all that their religion is true. The length of time a particular belief system has been around says more about the strength of the believers and the ability of the message to last through time than the validity or truth behind it.

No one would follow any religion if they did not think it to be true. The question is whether there is evidence of its validity.

[DrJ]

I do not see any point in continuing to send these emails.

Personally, I receive these emails all too often and it frustrates me to no end.

Especially those ones that try to entice you to pass it on like

"if you want to stand up for what you believe in, pass this on..."
"if this story touched you in any way, pass it on..."
"if you are not afraid to let the world know you believe..."

Of course, this is just another example of how religion tries to use fear, guilt, and shame to "entice" people to believe in what THEY believe in.

Your friend is just deleting these emails anyway... what good do you REALLY think you are doing?

People will not come to know God, whichever one it may be, just because they are on yours, or any one else's, email distribution list.

[Alty]

Dr. J, I had to spread the rep, but I agree.

You know what, Triund, keep sending the emails, no harm done, she's deleting them anyway.

Will she be ticked that your refuse to listen, probably, but she can keep her beliefs and you can pretend that you're getting through.

It's a win win.

[Alty]

Oh Alty, apparently you did not see my response to your original "joke". Oh well.

Yes I did, and then I tried to make another to keep the mood light and you stomped on it.

No worries, I tried, I should know better by now, but apparently I still believe that maybe, just maybe, we can have a discussion without you constantly going for the jugular.

We'll never agree Tom. I honestly think you're intimidated by me and that's why you won't even give an inch.

After all, I'm a woman, how dare I question you? :rolleyes:

What you fail to understand is that I'm an educated woman. I'm not some twit without a mind. You have to do more then just tell me "I believe so it is" because that won't work on me.

I've said it before, I'm not a sheep, I refuse to be a sheep. I follow the path that makes the most sense to me, not the one everyone else is following.

I'll unsubscribe to the thread, let you all continue your ramblings.

Good luck everyone.

[DrJ]

Triund, how would you feel if she, or another friend of yours, began sending you emails reciting from the Book of Mormon? Or passages from the Tao Te Ching?

[Tj3]

Yes I did, and then I tried to make another to keep the mood light and you stomped on it.

As I said, it is a matter of perspective. Some people always seem to see the worst in others and interpret everything they say in that manner. So for some folks, it would not matter what I said.

No worries, I tried, I should know better by now, but apparently I still believe that maybe, just maybe, we can have a discussion without you constantly going for the jugular.

You must be mis-reading the message - it is you always going for the jugular. Stop going for the juglar and try to see, How will you know until you stop doing it. Heaven knows I have tried to have a respectful discussion with you time and again.

If you think it the other way, put down your hatchet now and start talking to me like another human and let's see where it goes.

We'll never agree Tom. I honestly think you're intimidated by me and that's why you won't even give an inch.

You wish. :p

After all, I'm a woman, how dare I question you? :rolleyes:

You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about that. I never said or implied anything along this lines, but it seems to make you feel good to put down men who disagree with you. I can only ponder why. Does that make you feel good?

I'll unsubscribe to the thread, let you all continue your ramblings.

As you wish. The discussion was going along quite amiably until you decided to start throwing barbs.

Anytime you decide for real that you wish to discuss something respectfully, I will never close the door on you.

[paraclete]

This person has been hurt by the Church, there are many such persons. All you can do is pray for her salvation and be a friend. Don't try to change her views or confront her, you only need to tell a person the gospel once after that it is up to them

[Alty]

As I said, it is a matter of perspective. Some people always seem to see the worst in others and interpret everything they say in that manner. So for some folks, it would not matter what I said.

You must be mis-reading the message - it is you always going for the jugular. Stop going for the juglar and try to see, How will you know until you stop doing it. Heaven knows I have tried to have a respectful discussion with you time and again.

If you think it the other way, put down your hatchet now and start talking to me like another human and let's see where it goes.

Wrong.

Tom, you really are blind to the way you treat people.

Do you ever stop stating the same thing over and over and over again?

I don't have a hatchet. I'd love to discuss things with you. How many times have you proven it's not possible? I do have a shield because that's what's required when dealing with you.

Tom, really, it takes two to communicate. Two! You just want to preach, that's not communication.

Every time I post you pick apart what I say and twist it to suit you. Yes, I've done the same, when in Rome...

Then you bring up past posts because you have nothing new. Do you really think that constantly trying to rehash the past is the way to open communication?

Now you'll quote me, pick apart what I've said then claim that you're innocent, didn't have anything to do with it, it's all me.

You're very predictable. I'll just sit back and wait.

As for the thread moving along fine until I came. Yes, I agree. I came in and told all of you that we none Christians don't like having your beliefs shoved down our throats. Of course you don't agree. Of course you're going to get defensive. Does it make it any less true? No.

Really Tom, there's not point in us trying to talk. You won't let the past go and I'm tired of hearing about it. Until you can forgive and forget, listen and learn, there can't be communication, only arguments.

Good luck.

[Tj3]

Wrong.

Tom, you really are blind to the way you treat people.

Do you ever stop stating the same thing over and over and over again?

Here we go again. Are you going to try to disrupt and get this thread shut down?

I don't have a hatchet. I'd love to discuss things with you. How many times have you proven it's not possible? I do have a shield because that's what's required when dealing with you.

Alty,

It seems every time that you get on a thread where I am, you go into a personal rant until the thread is shut down. How is that trying to discuss?

As for the thread moving along fine until I came. Yes, I agree. I came in and told all of you that we none Christians don't like having your beliefs shoved down our throats. Of course you don't agree. Of course you're going to get defensive.

You came on here comparing us to rapists.

[Alty]

You came on here comparing us to rapists.

I didn't actually say you're rapists. Did I?

Just like the OP's friend didn't actually say no.

Are you reading between the lines Tom? Isn't that what you accused me of doing?

Interesting.

[Tj3]

I didn't actually say you're rapists. Did I?

And I did not say that you did, did I? But you did compare us to rapists.

What is your reason for coming on to threads like this anyway? Hijack and disrupt?

[Alty]

And I did not say that you did, did I? But you did compare us to rapists.

What is your reason for coming on to threads like this anyway? Hijack and disrupt?

I said that not taking no for an answer makes the person saying no feel like she's being raped.

I never did say the word rapist Tom.

What's my reason? To set the record straight, that's all. To point out that bullying someone and forcing them to accept your beliefs is not the way to get anyone to believe. It's wrong, it's a violation, and I for one am done putting up with it.

But of course you'd see at as hijacking and disruptive, because you love to accuse, to stir the pot.

Someone had to come here and stand up for the OP's friend. The woman that doesn't want Christianity but come hell or high water will have it force fed to her.

Hopefully she has some back bone and doesn't put up with it much longer.

Isn't it time for you to report the thread Tom? That's your MO.

Good luck.