[sndbay]

Except, as another person noted, we have evidence that dinosaurs and men existed together.

Yes, but it was a ape like man. The ape like men were unable to communication in speech.

God made man in the 6 day creation able to communicate and hear HIS word. (speculation)

[N0help4u]

Post #49

There was an age of dinosours and beasts with no communication skills that were created, and this would be the speculation of the earth that became void and unknown to man.(Perished)

(Genesis 1:3) begins the new creation. The heaven and earth age we know today. The six day creation that God offered man dominion over all the earth. (Genesi 1:26)

Okay so you do believe in the gap theory?
I haven't had time to read through all this. I was thinking you were one that believed that not even the angels existed before the six day creation.

[Tj3]

Yes, but it was a ape like man. The ape like men were unable to communication in speech.

God made man in the 6 day creation able to communicate and hear HIS word. (speculation)

What is the basis for this claim?

[N0help4u]

Good question cause the only ape man unable to communicate with words I know of would be evolution teaching.
I do not believe in evolution.

[sndbay]

Good question cause the only ape man unable to communicate with words I know of would be evolution teaching.
I do not believe in evolution.

Neither do I believe in evolution. Man today was created in the image of God during the 6 day creation. God was pleased with all He created. Man was the righteousness of God's image, and had dominion over the earth until Adam and Eve took from the tree of knowledge (evil knowledge).

What some believe is that Eve is the mother of all human life, which is false. Eve was the mother of all living, because through the seed line of Seth which would come the tribes of Israel. Christ Jesus is sent by the Father through that seed line in Mary, and the "Key of David", giving HIM the throne on earth. Allowing us the Tree of Life..(from which comes the idea mother of all living)

The speculation that an ape like, which lived during the age of dinosaurs, were as beasts without the ability to speech, similar to apes today. There was no human man before the 6 day creation.

[N0help4u]

Your distinctions are confusing me.
So either they were apes or they were man.
What do they have to do with humans?

Either Eve bore Seth or she didn't. So what do you mean by that?
What do you mean by mother of all living?
What are you saying?

[Tj3]

Neither do I believe in evolution. Man today was created in the image of God during the 6 day creation. God was pleased with all He created. Man was the righteousness of God's image, and had dominion over the earth until Adam and Eve took from the tree of knowledge (evil knowledge).

What some believe is that Eve is the mother of all human life, which is false. Eve was the mother of all living, because through the seed line of Seth which would come the tribes of Israel. Christ Jesus is sent by the Father through that seed line in Mary, and the "Key of David", giving HIM the throne on earth. Allowing us the Tree of Life..(from which comes the idea mother of all living)

The speculation that an ape like, which lived during the age of dinosaurs, were as beasts without the ability to speech, similar to apes today. There was no human man before the 6 day creation.

Again, what is your source for this claim?

[sndbay]

Either Eve bore Seth or she didn't. so what do you mean by that?
What do you mean by mother of all living?
What are you saying?

Genesis 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

Eve was the mother of all living because, through the seed line of Seth

Eve bore Seth

Your distinctions are confusing me.
So either they were apes or they were man.
What do they have to do with humans?

The speculation that an ape like, which lived during the age of dinosaurs, were as beasts without the ability to speech, similar to apes today.

Science speculated that an ape like man existed along with dinosaurs.

My speculation is that dinosaurs did live, and the ape like man was not a man, but similar as a beast type ape that lived at that same time frame. And as apes do not have the ability to communicate by speech neither could these beasts. Do you really think this speculation is so far off any path of teaching that it could not balance the questions of what science has taught?

I hope that answered your question. Confusion comes by satan and man wanting to believe the delusion they have been given by God in their own choice.

[N0help4u]

This is the way I understand it.

Apparently there is good evidence to indicate that Jeremiah 4 was stripped from the book of Genesis and placed in Jeremiah. This is how the book of Genesis really reads. The words in Jeremiah are in blue. See how smoothly it fits in. It really supports the gap theory. Maybe that is why they removed it in the first place. Also the word "was" (hayah) is a mistranslation. It should be "Became."

1961 hayah (haw-yaw);
a primitive root [compare 1933]; to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary):
KJV-- beacon, X altogether, be (-come), accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (oneself-), require, X use.

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.The earth was (became) without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. I beheld the earth, and indeed it was without form, and void; and the heavens, they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and indeed they trembled, and all the hills moved back and forth. I beheld, and indeed there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens had fled. I beheld, and indeed the fruitful land was a wilderness, and all its cities were broken down at the presence of the LORD, by His fierce anger. Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day."

"For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men." 2 Pet 3:5-7

In 2 Pet.3:6-7 we have a definite statement that there was a social world before Adam, which is called, "the world that then was." The Greek word for world is 'kosmos,' meaning social system.

This social order had to be before this one we now know, or it could not be called "the social order that then was." That it was one which existed before our social order since Adam, is clear from the next statement about "the heavens and the earth, WHICH ARE NOW." The two statements, "the world THAT THEN WAS" and "the
heavens and the earth, WHICH ARE NOW" prove there were two separate social systems on Earth. One was BEFORE the one WHICH IS NOW, and the other, AFTER the one THAT THEN WAS.

If it can be definitely proved that "THE WORLD THAT THEN WAS" refers to a social order on Earth before the present heavens and the Earth WHICH ARE NOW, then it would be forever settled that there were inhabitants before Adam.

1. THAT IS WHAT 2 PET.3:6-7 SAYS. It could not be expressed more clearly in human language than it is here, "By the word of God the heavens WERE OF OLD, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water. Whereby the world [social order] THAT THEN WAS [of old, and BEFORE the heavens and the Earth WHICH ARE NOW], being overflowed with water perished: But the heavens and the earth, WHICH ARE NOW [AFTER the world THAT THEN WAS], by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."
The Gap Theory

Jesus said he saw Satan cast out of heaven
If satan was Lucifer the angel and then he was tempting Eve where is the timeline with all this in relation to Gen. 1 and 2?

[Tj3]

Genesis 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

Eve bore Seth

Science speculated that an ape like man existed along with dinosaurs.

If you mean evolutionists, they deny that dinosaurs existed at the same time as any type of man.

[Tj3]

This is the way I understand it.

Apparently there is good evidence to indicate that Jeremiah 4 was stripped from the book of Genesis and placed in Jeremiah. This is how the book of Genesis really reads. The words in Jeremiah are in blue. See how smoothly it fits in. It really supports the gap theory. Maybe that is why they removed it in the first place. Also the word "was" (hayah) is a mistranslation. It should be "Became."

Where is the evidence? I have never heard this claim by any credible scholar who has researched the history of the Bible.

I went to that page to find out who these "scholars" were who found this evidence and what the evidence was. The source is "stargods.org". They give no names, but they do give a statement of faith which reads like this:

-----------------------------
1. The creator of this world (the Demiurge) is demented.
2. The world is not as it appears, in order to hide the evil in it, a delusive veil obscuring it and the deranged deity.
3. There is another, better realm of God, and all our efforts are to be directed toward
1. returning there
2. bringing it here
4. Our actual lives stretch thousands of years back, and we can be made to remember our origin in the stars.
5. Each of us has a divine counterpart unfallen who can reach a hand down to us to awaken us. This other personality is the authentic waking self; the one we have now is asleep and minor. We are in fact asleep, and in the hands of a dangerous magician disguised as a good god, the deranged creator deity. The bleakness, the evil and pain in this world, the fact that it is a deterministic prison controlled by the demented creator causes us willingly to split with the reality principle early in life, and so to speak willingly fall asleep in delusion.
6. You can pass from the delusional prison world into the peaceful kingdom if the True Good God places you under His grace and allows you to see reality through His eyes.
7. Christ gave, rather than received, revelation; he taught his followers how to enter the kingdom while still alive, where other mystery religions only bring about amnesis: knowledge of it at the "other time" in "the other realm," not here. He causes it to come here, and is the living agency to the Sole Good God (i.e. the Logos).
8. Probably the real, secret Christian church still exists, long underground, with the living Corpus Christi as its head or ruler, the members absorbed into it. Through participation in it they probably have vast, seemingly magical powers.
9. The division into "two times" (good and evil) and "two realms" (good and evil) will abruptly end with victory for the good time here, as the presently invisible kingdom separates and becomes visible. We cannot know the date.
10. During this time we are on the sifting bridge being judged according to which power we give allegiance to, the deranged creator demiurge of this world or the One Good God and his kingdom, whom we know through Christ.
(Source: Statement of Belief)
-----------------------------

I would be careful of using this as a resource.

[sndbay]

If you mean evolutionists, they deny that dinosaurs existed at the same time as any type of man.

Professor of Biomaterials and of Basic Science and Craniofacial Biology:

Man's earliest direct ancestors looked more apelike than previousl...( Modern mans earliest known close ance...)

off thread

[sndbay]

I went to that page to find out who these "scholars" were who found this evidence and what the evidence was. The source is "stargods.org".

(Source: Statement of Belief)
.

Tj3,

Thanks for the "knowledge" you posted, being a source to Gnosticism. I had never heard of the religion of knowledge before.

However I did look further in to the idea of this knowledge: Revolution! Free your mind!

1. I refuse to live in fear by living in a state of love.

2. I will not be controlled by fear produced by religion and New World Order (NWO) groups.

3. I will learn and practice love which casts out fear.

4. I realize that the New World Order is gaining on us fast, but I will refuse to acknowledge it and realized they are very desperate and are becoming confused as the people of earth are spiritually waking up. As we grow in love, they are losing their control over us. The NWO was set to take over in the year 2000, but the people were far more aware of what they were up to, and the NWO plan for the ages got placed on hold.

5. As I learn love, I will abhor violence, because love is a higher frequency that is very powerful, and is proven to change reality. Soon the world will change as we draw closer to the year 2012.

6. I will not be controlled by a fear of what people think of me. I will make it clear to all people what I believe and refuse to live in fear of what they may think. I will believe in what I believe, and will never be intimidated by threats of hell, and the Lake of fire, for not conforming to religious mind control. I will not pretend to be something that I am not in order to please people. I will not go along just to get along.

7. We are free thinking individuals that have the right to believe in whatever we decide is truth.

8. Truth comes from within, and not from outside. In other words, so called truth outside of us can be manipulated, altered, and filled with lies.

9. Love is the only truth.


10. I refuse to debate doctrines of men because love is the only doctrine. Anything or anyone that teaches or preaches anything else other than love is deception from the ultimate truth. Any religion or God that promotes love is a true faith. Any religion or God that promotes fear, is false religion.

11. I refuse to label and condemn people because we are all one. I will never confuse ignorance with evil.

12. I will never condone any nation or world leader that endorses war. I must oppose war by being very vocal against it. I will not condone any church, pastor, religion, world leader, holy scripture, or God that condones war or violence.


We will be who we will be. Change the world with our minds and not violence.

EMPOWERMENT not GOVERNMENT
http://stargods.org/Revolution.html
***********************************
Discussion off thread

[sndbay]

This is the way I understand it.

The Gap Theory

Everything in which you posted by scripture reference, is the same evidence of scripture that has been posted previously. AND I look for the evidence in scripture as my source.

In what is written there is speculation needed to acknowledge that Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 was teaching of an earth and heaven that became void. And speculation in the understand that Genesis 1:3 goes forward from that perished, and unknown time frame, to the creation of what life is today. I just had never heard it called the Gap Theory. The specualtion is there because we do have to reference further into scripture for the obvious answers. I feel the answers are there...

Jesus said he saw Satan cast out of heaven
If satan was Lucifer the angel and then he was tempting Eve where is the timeline with all this in relation to Gen. 1 and 2?

IN understanding what you mean by this question, could you reference scripture?

[Tj3]

Professor of Biomaterials and of Basic Science and Craniofacial Biology:

Man's earliest direct ancestors looked more apelike than previousl...( Modern mans earliest known close ance...)

off thread

That was my point - evolutionists deny that man co-existed with dinosaurs. Evolutionists says that dinosaurs died out before this:

Study: Dinosaurs Died Within Hours After Asteroid Hit Earth 65 Million Years Ago | News Center | University of Colorado at Boulder

[sndbay]

That was my point - evolutionists deny that man co-existed with dinosaurs. Evolutionists says that dinosaurs died out before this:

Study: Dinosaurs Died Within Hours After Asteroid Hit Earth 65 Million Years Ago | News Center | University of Colorado at Boulder

NOTED REFERENCE: shows a 1.9 million-year-old skull belonging to Homo rudolfensis, the earliest member of the human genus, with a surprisingly small brain and distinctly protruding jaw, features commonly associated with more apelike members of the hominid family living as much as three million years ago.


Tell me something Tom, Do you think all of this happened before 6 day creation? Did either one take place before or after? There is definite and sufficient proof that both did exist.

I am not claiming to be the smartest brain at science, or biology, but these things are shown as being evident by men that have done a great deal of study. Tell me what your point is?

Reference:
http://www.genome.gov/10001772

http://www.genome.gov/10000779

[Tj3]

NOTED REFERENCE: shows a 1.9 million-year-old skull belonging to Homo rudolfensis, the earliest member of the human genus, with a surprisingly small brain and distinctly protruding jaw, features commonly associated with more apelike members of the hominid family living as much as three million years ago.


Tell me something Tom, Do you think all of this happened before 6 day creation? Did either one take place before or after? There is definite and sufficient proof that both did exist.

I do believe that all of creation occurred in the 6 day period, yes.

Do I necessarily agree with evolutionists as to the process that they believe occurred? No, but neither do many other highly qualified and respected scientists. Keep in mind that these claims regarding what occurred have numerous assumptions built into them. Even the existence of some of these being has been extrapolated from relatively little evidence. Probably one of the best known examples was a supposed "early man" which subsequently turned out to have been exptrapolated from a piece of a jawbone of an animal.

I am not claiming to be the smartest brain at science, or biology, but these things are shown as being evident by men that have done a great deal of study. Tell me what your point is?

None of this is proven. Men of equal study have arrived at varying conclusuions. Scientists even today are still m odifying their theories. But the one thing that we do know for certain is what God told us in His word.

Reference:
genome.gov | All About The Human Genome Project (HGP)

genome.gov | Former Director Francis S. Collins

[/QUOTE]

I am not sure what your point is with the links to the Human Genome Project. This is simply a project to map the genetic code of human DNA.

[sndbay]

I am not sure what your point is with the links to the Human Genome Project. This is simply a project to map the genetic code of human DNA.

It was just a point of reference for Francis S Collins who wrote the book I spoke of "The Language of God" base on a scientist presenting evidence of belief.

[N0help4u]

NOTED REFERENCE:

Tell me something Tom, Do you think all of this happened before 6 day creation? Did either one take place before or after? There is definite and sufficient proof that both did exist.


Reference:
genome.gov | All About The Human Genome Project (HGP)

genome.gov | Former Director Francis S. Collins

Basically what I was getting at about Satans fall. I believe that and the dinosaurs happened before the six day creation.
Beginning
Beginning of what?
Creation
Creation of what?

Like if you take play dough it is an object
Then you create it into something
Then later you can take it and create something else with it
Then you have the beginning of that 'creation'

[sndbay]

Basically what I was getting at about Satans fall. I believe that and the dinosaurs happened before the six day creation.
Beginning
beginning of what?
Creation
Creation of what?

Like if you take play dough it is an object
then you create it into something
then later you can take it and create something else with it
then you have the beginning of that 'creation'

Yes this is the speculation in which I believe is possible as well. (noted that it is a speculation resourced by what scripture gives us)

An earth age that existed before this earth age, that went on for years before the creation of man in God's image known as ( 6 day creation). And yes speculation includes that satan was at that time frame, the Lucifer who is referenced in (Isa:14:16) as the man who will come, and does today still attempt to imprison men with the worm of material lusts, and not spiritual heart of love. Lucifer's (fall the division of assigned bondage) from heaven is referenced in (Isa 14:12) That fall caused the earth to tremble, and did shake kingdoms and made the world a wilderness. The same Lucifer who of pride within his heart was recognized by God, to exalt himself above God the MOSY HIGH.

*********
Speculation includes reference of scientic resource, and studies being done that show evidence to the age of this world, and the covered age of what once was.

The wonders of God's Creation. One of those wonders is a dinosaur recently discovered frozen in Antarctica, thought to be quite ancient. This dinosaur is thought to be 190 million years old.

Dinosaur Found Frozen in Antarctica