[sabrewolfe]

Nestorian, her symptoms match much of those of narcissism, being manpulative, disregarding my emotions, pushing the blame on me for her behaviour, dissociating her flaws and way of thinking as being mine, being very defensive, constantly accusing me of cheating on her, being controlling, and some historiac behaviour as needing to be the center of my attention.
I have tried to discuss these things with her but never get anywhere with it because she will just throw it back at me saying that I'm the one with the issues.

[Wondergirl]

Nestorian, her symptoms match much of those of narcissism, being manpulative, disregarding my emotions, pushing the blame on me for her behaviour, dissociating her flaws and way of thinking as being mine, being very defensive, constantly accusing me of cheating on her, being controlling, and some historiac behaviour as needing to be the center of my attention.
I have tried to discuss these things with her but never get anywhere with it because she will just throw it back at me saying that I'm the one with the issues.

Why on earth are you trying to diagnose her?? If you were my boyfriend, I would be livid.

[sabrewolfe]

Wondergirl, Im just looking to get some others experience dealing with any of these disorders.

[Wondergirl]

Wondergirl, Im just looking to get some others experience dealing with any of these disorders.

So how does your girlfriend fit into the scheme of things?

[sabrewolfe]

Why on earth are you trying to diagnose her???? If you were my bf, I would be livid.

Because I believe she has a problem, and so do many other people that know her. She herself has admitted a few times of having problems but will not seek professional help. Don't be upset, I love my girlfriend and I'd like to know how to deal with it better.

[sabrewolfe]

So how does your gf fit into the scheme of things?

As far as what?

[pathisfer]

I lived with 2 borderlines in Boarding school. They were very difficult to deal with and needed therapy 2-3x a week plus medication. At times they could be very charming and cooperative but you never knew what was going to set them off. The therapists there mainly worked on how manipulative they were and how to take accountability for their actions- it was a big problem trying to have rational conversations with them when they were worked up because they would shift blame and always turn things around. One was my roommate and she tended to see people as either wonderful or evil and often shifted to different extremes on her views based on a single incident. People were either her best friends or totally against her. I often saw her turn on people for the slightest things and it always felt like you were constantly trying to rebuild trust with her, draining!
I've never met a 'diagnosed' narcissist but I think narcissists are the last people that would even go to therapy. I believe I've run into a few though!
I agree it's important not to label but I do think it's important to educate yourself on ways not to be manipulated or blackmailed by people- it will help your communication skills all around and will also help you build better boundaries.
The books I suggested do exactly this and give you coping strategies whether you are dealing with just a difficult personality or actually someone with a disorder.

[Wondergirl]

Because I believe she has a problem, and so do many other people that know her. She herself has admitted a few times of having problems but will not seek professional help. Don't be upset, I love my girlfriend and I'd like to know how to deal with it better.

You cannot diagnose her. If you try, you will probably be wrong. Please stop.

There is something wrong with each of us -- that includes both you and me. It might be panic disorder, schizophrenia, depression, OCD, autism, paranoia, and on and on. We each have a unique personality.

What do you mean by "deal with it"? What's to deal with? And don't forget -- she has to "deal with" you.

[sabrewolfe]

Pathisfer, what you described sounds much like her. I will look into those books you suggested, thank you.

[Wondergirl]

I got this off another thread you started and feel a diagnosis bubbling up --

1. We are in our latter thirtys
2. We have a child together
3. We live separate
4. We email or call each other occasionally
5. We see each other almost every two weeks
6. She is very insecure
7. She feels she's not in my 'league'
8. She accuses me constantly of messing around on her
9. I tell her all the time that I love her
10. I tell her she's my soulmate
11. I tell her she's my angel
12. I tell her she's the one, etc. etc.
13. Every time we get together she goes into one of her drilling sessions about why other women are emailing me, why I have friends that are females, and so on.
14. I gave her my email password so she could see for herself that I have nothing to hide.
15. I have many friends, male and female, we like the same tthings, snowboarding and what not, but these are friends I've had for a long time BUT Im not allowed to be around half of them or talk to them anymore because of her.
16. Two weekends ago I was at a get together at a friends house and my girlfriend told me to call her when I was there.
17. I did, and she demanded I not stay the night even though I was drinking.
18. Actually I ended up leaving earlier because two other friends, being two females Im not allowed around, were coming.
19. Last weekend while I was with my girlfriend, and she was drilling me, I told her that I left my buddies get together because of the two girls that were coming. So she starts in with, "why would they invite those two knowing full well that you are not allowed around them?"
20. I simply told her that I can't tell my friends wife who she can or can't invite to her own house.
21. She told me, "well now your not allowed over his house either!"
22. I do get so tired of her accusing me of things and being so insecure.
23. I just had enough and I let her know it.
24. I said some mean things, of which I apologized for, but she kept on going on about it that night that I just couldn't take it anymore.
25. She's mad at me, she won't forgive me, she says she can never trust me, and she wants to break up again.
26. I love her, I want to spend the rest of my life with her.

A. Do I just give up all my friends? Im not sure if that would even satisfy her.
B. I want to make it work.
C. I also want her to feel secure.

[Nestorian]

Wondegirl is telling you Saberwolf that we all have tendencies, and unless you know and have gone through the schooling for the Psychology to unravel this mystery, you potentially risk making the whole situation much much worse.

Trying to figure out what some one has is not a matter of simply reading a book and saying oh, this seems like it. It is much deeper and harder then that. First there is your own perception/interpretation. Then there is the meshing of symptoms, and hidden symptoms. Also, she may be keeping inoformation from you and so on.

Even if every one agrees with you, they know too little about the nature of ones brain to be agreeing/disagreeing with you. The second some one says she maybe, for example "borderline", every one's thoughts are switched to it, and have little knowledge about it. Further more, your own personal perception could be obscured by what you think should or should not be. You were raised in a different way than her, so your ideals are not the same, then she is her own person with differnet goals than you.
Are you taking all this into account??
That's not all though, your perception could very well be obscured by your own mental issues, may be your are the one with a personality disorder. Yes even your friends maybe obscured.

Mental health is not a straight forward issue. Any number of disorders can share similar symptoms, and mesh together. If you try to treat (in your case treat meant is cope with her on a personal level.) you very well could "push a button", thus "triggering" a response you won't like, nor understand. It can be harmful as well to her, as it may make her symptoms much worse or even multiply. No I kid you not. Then there is the trying to figure out what is the sronger of them, and how it's affecting the other ones. Say she is a borderline personality and you help her out when she feels lonely, but then you have to go to work and she won't let you go. Then you finally get short with her and tear a strip off her, yeah sure you feel guilty and bad, but really the damage is done. Now she devlopes anxiety around you and mistrusts you. The issues compile.

For what ever reasons she may have she may keep things to her self. Like child hood abuse, or fears that you may call silly/dumb with out even realizing she has them and now she feels worse and apprehensive around you. She may not even know the reasons or notice that she does things that are not approptiate, but you do and you again, tell her that's not right. If you don't know what disorder she has, how can you talk to her? It's dangerous.

There are more factors and these go much deeper but I'm unable to think of any off hand.

WONDERGIRL, I hope I did not go out of line, nor off bases. After all it's what you said that I was trying to get across. Please do let me know and I'll change it if you wish.

Peace and kindness be with you.

P.S. Saberwolf, try to persuade her to talk to a professional, be tactful and causious. Good luck.

[Gemini54]

Hi Sabrewolf, I posted the original reply that suggested looking at that website.

A family member of mine has Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) and for 11 years they have made our life a living hell. In order to try and understand the condition and deal with it I have done heaps and heaps of research. (At one stage it actually felt a bit obsessive - but I'm better now LOL.)

Personality disorders are extremely difficult to deal with - you'll find much information on the internet suggesting ways of dealing with them. Most of the literature suggests that there is no 'cure' or successful treatment and this is partly because sufferers rarely recognize that they have a problem. I don't thing it's wrong for you to try and figure out what's wrong with your partner - particularly if other people around you are saying the same thing - because I suspect she is unlikely to seek help herself, unless you make it a condition of you staying in the relationship.

Essentially , the advice for people in relationships boils down to three options:

1. Do exactly what they want and 'feed' the disorder on a daily basis.
2. Set really strong boundaries in the relationship about what you will and won't put up with.
3. Leave.

Of course all of these options are fraught with problems, particularly if you have children and if you, presumably, still love your partner:

Feeding the disorder on a daily basis and pandering to their ever changing demands and whims will most likely turn you into a zombie, a shadow of your former self. In any case, nothing you do will ever be good enough and you'll be sucked dry and spat out. You may as well put your testicles in a jar and forget about them. What sort of example is this to your child? You won't have a life.

Setting strong boundaries can work, but it will be a constant power struggle and she'll engineer more ways than you can possible imagine to challenge you and subvert the boundaries. You'll feel attacked, manipulated and harassed on a daily basis - is this what you want your child to observe? You'll have a hard life, with if you're lucky, some small gains.

Leaving is incredibly hard, particularly if you have children and you know they'll be in her care. You'll be the worst person in the world and you can guarantee that she'll make seeing your child difficult. You may have the opportunity to start a new life and to care for your child in an environment free from her influence.

See what I mean? There is no win/win situation here. I go back to my final suggestion in the original post - that is, seek professional assistance for yourself about how to deal with her behaviour.

[sabrewolfe]

Nestorian, Im not trying to treat her, Im only asking about others experience with it, but thank you for your input. Im sorry I even asked about it.

[Wondergirl]

Wondegirl is telling you Saberwolf that we all have tendancies

I agree that Saberwolf should call off his dogs and stop trying to diagnosis her. In his earlier post on another thread, he said, "I gave her my email password so she could see for herself that I have nothing to hide....these are friends I've had for a long time BUT Im not allowed to be around half of them or talk to them anymore because of her....my girlfriend told me to call her when I was there....I did, and she demanded I not stay the night even though I was drinking....I do get so tired of her accusing me of things....I said some mean things, of which I apologized for, but she kept on going on about it that night that I just couldn't take it anymore."

This does not sound like a healthy relationship, and I put as much fault at his door for being a dependent personality as I do at hers for being a controller. There. I've done it. I made a diagnosis.

[Wondergirl]

Nestorian, Im not trying to treat her

Yes, you are. You want to pin a diagnosis on her, so you will know "how to handle her."

The main thing you need to do is establish firm boundaries. You are giving up things that you love in order to "make her happy." That's not how it works in a relationship. Have you ever made her "happy"? If so, what did you give up to make that happen? Yes, I agree that you should have a few sessions with a therapist in order to figure out how to put up boundaries and stick to them. This is good to know with anyone, by the way.

[Nestorian]

I agree that Saberwolf should call off his dogs and stop trying to diagnosis her. In his earlier post on another thread, he said, "I gave her my email password so she could see for herself that I have nothing to hide....these are friends I've had for a long time BUT Im not allowed to be around half of them or talk to them anymore because of her....my girlfriend told me to call her when I was there....I did, and she demanded I not stay the night even though I was drinking....I do get so tired of her accusing me of things....I said some mean things, of which I apologized for, but she kept on going on about it that night that I just couldn't take it anymore."

This does not sound like a healthy relationship, and I put as much fault at his door for being a dependent personality as I do at hers for being a controller. There. I've done it. I made a diagnosis.

PRetty much the best thing he can do is leave then... :( But its' true, "you don't know what you got till it's gone."- Counting crows This is what either makes us stronger, or...

If you stay, you stay the way you are, unless you get Professional Help. Face the facts and then realize the truth hiden behind them.


Peace and kindness

[sabrewolfe]

Thank you Gemini54, and thanks again for that website. You are absolutely right, none of those three choices are easy to make. I know I will never get her to see a therapist, it's a choice she will have to make on her own. I'd like to try to set the boundaries with her, but trying to figure out the best way of dealing with the irrational behaviour as a result. It's a real rollercoaster ride at times.

[Wondergirl]

Thank you Gemini54, and thanks again for that website. You are absolutely right, none of those three choices are easy to make. I know I will never get her to see a therapist, it's a choice she will have to make on her own. I'd like to try to set the boundaries with her, but trying to figure out the best way of dealing with the irrational behaviour as a result. It's a real rollercoaster ride at times.

Y0U have a few sessions with a therapist. You need the support and you need to be able to set out boundaries. Can you do that alone? Will you allow her to search through your cell calls made and received? Will you give up friends and parties and get-togethers and vacations and foods if she asks you to? It won't be a rollercoaster ride if you are in charge of the brakes.

[Gemini54]

Thank you Gemini54, and thanks again for that website. You are absolutely right, none of those three choices are easy to make. I know I will never get her to see a therapist, it's a choice she will have to make on her own. I'd like to try to set the boundaries with her, but trying to figure out the best way of dealing with the irrational behaviour as a result. It's a real rollercoaster ride at times.

My pleasure Sabrewolf, at least if you speak to someone your choices will, hopefully, become clearer. I would not start setting any boundaries until such time that you've spoken with an accredited therapist and you have their support and advice to rely on. Someone that has experience with personality disorders, is my humble suggestion.

[Nestorian]

Nestorian, Im not trying to treat her, Im only asking about others experience with it, but thank you for your input. Im sorry I even asked about it.

You missed what I was saying. But no worries.