[Wondergirl]

Yes cleansing (purging of sin) is accomplished by Jesus in a state of being, i.e. purgatory. Such a state of being can occur at anytime, it doesn't always need to be in some spiritual afterworld.

I don't get it; you're saying the words in the verses at the same time denying the meaning.

Since you're a Saint on Earth, jumor me and answer thisl stupid question. Are you perfect in every way; not just perfect, rather are you immaculate, spotless, sinless, without fault, in every way? Simple question, it doesn't take much soul searching for an answer; respond, 'yes' or 'no'.

JoeT

Yes. Jesus has cleansed me from all unrighteousness in the eyes of His Father. The price for my sin has been paid once and for all. It is a gift to me and entitles me to heaven.

[arcura]

Tj3,
The forgiveness of sins is one thing, the cleansing of our human tendency to sin in another.
That one is taken care of in Purgatory.
You'll see that when your there.

[Wondergirl]

Tj3,
The forgiveness of sins is one thing, the cleansing of our human tendency to sin in another.
That one is taken care of in Purgatory.
You'll see that when your there.

Jesus did the cleansing part already too.

[Tj3]

Tj3,
The forgiveness of sins is one thing, the cleansing of our human tendency to sin in another.

Really? Where is the scriptural support for that.

Note what scripture says:

Heb 10:13-15
14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
NKJV

How do you think that you can improve upon the perfection of Jesus?

That one is taken care of in Purgatory.
You'll see that when your there.

As with Paul, I will never see purgatory. I will be present with the Lord:

2 Cor 5:8
8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
NKJV

[sndbay]

You're a great Christian, so let me ask a real stupid question, just humor me. Are you perfect in every way; not just perfect, rather are you immaculate, spotless, sinless, without fault, in every way? Simple question, it doesn't take much soul searching for an answer; respond, 'yes' or 'no'.

JoeT

Somehow you do not see what it is that God tells you.. and I pray in love for all mankind, that if it is God's will, all might see His Way, and His will to be done

1 Peter 1:22-23 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

I believe, and I am thankful unto God for being born again. And by God hand God has increased and granted this to me. And I have received a soul purified in desire to obeying the truth through the Holy Spirit that guides me.. I follow and trust The Word of God. I follow by no other name, then as a child of God. I confess in prayer, with love and faith unseen, knowing that God is with me. I confess by a heart of conviction, in the desire to live and be all that God created me to be. Knowing that it is His hand of strength, and His will is to be done..

Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

And I say before the world confess love of God and not things of this world. Confess the thankfulness in all that Our Father's love has given. Confess Christ Jesus as the begotten Son of God, and walk in Him.

Moreover confess Christ among men, and His ways. (Matthew 10:32)

Confess that God raised Christ from the dead (Romans 10:9)

Confess that Christ is Lord in the glory of God the Father (Phl 2:11)

Confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelled in Him and he in God (1 John 4:15)

This is the Truth!
1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Amen Amen

[sndbay]

Tj3,
The forgiveness of sins is one thing, the cleansing of our human tendency to sin in another.
That one is taken care of in Purgatory.
You'll see that when your there.

I Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

I Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.


Are you born again and ready to obey God through the Holy Spirit?

[JoeT777]

Somehow you do not see what it is that God tells you.. and I pray in love for all mankind, that if it is God's will, all might see His Way, and His will to be done

1 Peter 1:22-23 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

I believe, and I am thankful unto God for being born again. And by God hand God has increased and granted this to me. And I have received a soul purified in desire to obeying the truth through the Holy Spirit that guides me.. I follow and trust The Word of God. I follow by no other name, then as a child of God. I confess in prayer, with love and faith unseen, knowing that God is with me. I confess by a heart of conviction, in the desire to live and be all that God created me to be. Knowing that it is His hand of strength, and His will is to be done..

Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

And I say before the world confess love of God and not things of this world. Confess the thankfulness in all that Our Father's love has given. Confess Christ Jesus as the begotten Son of God, and walk in Him.

Moreover confess Christ among men, and His ways. (Matthew 10:32)

Confess that God raised Christ from the dead (Romans 10:9)

Confess that Christ is Lord in the glory of God the Father (Phl 2:11)

Confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelled in Him and he in God (1 John 4:15)

This is the Truth!
1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Amen Amen

But you didn't answer the question; "Are you perfect in every way; not just perfect, rather are you immaculate, spotless, sinless, without fault, in every way? Simple question, it doesn’t take much soul searching for an answer; respond, ‘yes’ or ‘no’"

[arcura]

sndbay,
Yes I am, but I still sin from time to time as I think everyone does.
It is our human nature of this world.
It is our tendency to sin that must be purified.
Fred

[JoeT777]

Yes. Jesus has cleansed me from all unrighteousness in the eyes of His Father. The price for my sin has been paid once and for all. It is a gift to me and entitles me to heaven.

Then you're not a sinner like the rest of us? You're a Saint? Why do I have a hard time believing this?

[Tj3]

Then you're not a sinner like the rest of us? You're a Saint? Why do I have a hard time believing this?

Joe,

Those who are saved through Christ (i.e. we are saints), though we have sinned, have the righteousness of Christ imputed to us:

Rom 4:20-25
20 He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. 22 And therefore "it was accounted to him for righteousness." 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.
NKJV

As a result, it is not our righteousness which purifies and cleanses us, but it is the righteousness of Christ imputed to us. As a result, there is nothing more that could be done to further purify us.

[arcura]

Joe,
I also have a hard time believing that.
The bible says we are all sinners.
That I believe.
Fred

[Wondergirl]

Then you're not a sinner like the rest of us? You're a Saint? Why do I have a hard time believing this?

From gotquestions.org --

The word saint comes from the Greek word "hagios" which means “consecrated to God, holy, sacred, pious." ... Scripturally speaking, the saints are the body of Christ, Christians, the church. All Christians are considered saints. All Christian are saints…and at the same time are called to be saints. 1 Corinthians 1:2 states it clearly, “To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy…” The words “sanctified” and “holy” come from the same Greek root as the word that is commonly translated “saints.” Christians are saints by virtue of their connection with Jesus Christ. Christians are called to be saints, to increasingly allow their daily life to more closely match their position in Christ. This is the Biblical description and calling of the saints....In the Bible, everyone who has received Jesus Christ by faith is a saint.

[arcura]

Wondergirl
Yes but that still did not answer the question if you were a sinner and perfectly clean.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[JoeT777]

from gotquestions.org --

The word saint comes from the Greek word "hagios" which means “consecrated to God, holy, sacred, pious." ... Scripturally speaking, the saints are the body of Christ, Christians, the church. All Christians are considered saints. All Christian are saints…and at the same time are called to be saints. 1 Corinthians 1:2 states it clearly, “To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy…” The words “sanctified” and “holy” come from the same Greek root as the word that is commonly translated “saints.” Christians are saints by virtue of their connection with Jesus Christ. Christians are called to be saints, to increasingly allow their daily life to more closely match their position in Christ. This is the Biblical description and calling of the saints....In the Bible, everyone who has received Jesus Christ by faith is a saint.

Your playing with words, come on now, I know you don't think you're sinless.

[Tj3]

Wondergirl
Yes but that still did not answer the question if you were a sinner and perfectly clean.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I'll answer it. I am a sinner saved by the grace of God, through the blood shed on my behalf on the cross, and as a result, I have the righteousness of Christ imputed to me - therefore I am perfectly clean, because the righteousness of Christ is perfect righteousness.

[JoeT777]

The entire point of purgatory is to purify as Priests of Moses’ Tabernacle cleansed themselves and their sacrifices.

“In following the Gospel exhortation to be perfect like the heavenly Father (cf. Mt 5: 48) during our earthly life, we are called to grow in love, to be sound and flawless before God the Father "at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all his saints" (1 Thes 3: 12f.). Moreover, we are invited to "cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit" (2 Cor 7: 1; cf. 1 Jn 3: 3), because the encounter with God requires absolute purity. Every trace of attachment to evil must be eliminated, every imperfection of the soul corrected.” Pope John Paul II


JoeT

[Tj3]

The entire point of purgatory is to purify as Priests of Moses’ Tabernacle cleansed themselves and their sacrifices.

However, the point that we are making is that scripture says that Jesus did that on the cross, and does not support the doctrine of purgatory.

[Nestorian]

Ok, I know people will flip about this,but wouldn't Jessus be a sinner? On account he willingly gave his life, commite suicide, for our sins?

Really, he killed himself, in direstly of course, but it's no different then some one walking in front of a bus.

Isn't suicide "wrong" or a "sin"? Just wanted to know.

[Tj3]

Ok, I know people will flip about this,but wouldn't Jessus be a sinner? On account he willingly gave his life, commite suicide, for our sins?

No, he did not commit suicide. He was willing to die but did not take His own life.

Really, he killed himself, in direstly of course, but it's no different then some one walking in front of a bus.

A better analogy would be of a man volunteering to be a soldier in a war, knowing that he faces a likelihood of death, or someone who dies protecting their family.

[JoeT777]

However, the point that we are making is that scripture says that Jesus did that on the cross, and does not support the doctrine of purgatory.

Yes, He PAID the price. And he will cleanse the soul in purgatory so that no sin enters heaven and so that we can be presented to the Father flawless.