[JoeT777]

This is a very simple question, no conditions, no presuppositions. What is ‘Church’?


JoeT

[Clough]

Hi, JoeT777!

Since you've posted this in the Christianity forum topic area, I presume that you're asking about what is the definition of a Christian church? Or maybe, what is a Christian church to a Christian? Maybe even, what is church in general to a person, in general?

There might be even other interpretations as to what you're asking, so what specifically is it that you mean, please?

I'll be happy to give you my definition as to what I think that a Christian church is according to my understanding, but I would appreciate some clarification as what you mean by your question.

I don't mean to put a "bump in the road" so soon, but I hope that you see my point here.

Thanks!

[kbrockway]

church is a body of believers in Jesus Christ. The members make the church acts 14:27. People have receiced Jesus as their savior.
Are you religious or are you saved? 
During a religious ceremony, someone sprinkled water on my head. Religion teaches that when infants go through this ceremony, they will go to Heaven. They gave me a certificate saying, you are baptized unto salvation. Growing up, I believed what I was taught.
Then, one day I listened to some street preachers. I started to wonder if I really was going to Heaven. I read my Bible and realized that I'm a sinner on my way to Hell. The Bible says that Jesus came into the world to save sinners. So I asked Jesus to forgive me of my sins and save me. Now I know that when I die, I will go to Heaven. Let me ask you a question. Are you sure you will go to Heaven when you die?
Here's how you can know:
Realize that you are a sinner.  Romans 3:23 says “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.”
Realize that the punishment on sin is eternal death in Hell.  Romans 6:23 says “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
Realize that Jesus died in your place.  Romans 5:8 says “But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”
Trust only Jesus as your Savior.  Romans 10:9 says “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”
Ask Jesus to forgive you of your sins and save you.  Romans 10:13 says “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
You can call upon the Lord by praying something like this:
Dear Jesus, I admit that I'm a sinner, deserving of Hell. I believe you died on the cross for my sins and rose from the dead. Please forgive me of my sins and take me to heaven when I die. In Jesus name, Amen.
God's assurance of salvation.  John 10:27-28 says “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”
Good works will not save you. Ephesians 2:8-9 says “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”
Jesus is the only way to Heaven. John 14:6 says “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
I then got baptized as a public testimony of my salvation. This is my first act of obedience. I now hear the gospel preached at a Bible believing church called Faith Baptist Church in La Crosse, WI. If you would like to visit, the address is 3615 S. 28th St. Phone (608) 788-1165

Psalms 118:8 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.

[JoeT777]

Hi, JoeT777!

Since you've posted this in the Christianity forum topic area, I presume that you're asking about what is the definition of a Christian church? Or maybe, what is a Christian church to a Christian? Maybe even, what is church in general to a person, in general?

There might be even other interpretations as to what you're asking, so what specifically is it that you mean, please?

I'll be happy to give you my definition as to what I think that a Christian church is according to my understanding, but I would appreciate some clarification as what you mean by your question.

I don't mean to put a "bump in the road" so soon, but I hope that you see my point here.

Thanks!

Jesushelper76 agrees: He asked it that way for a reason, I would presume. There could be defiantly many different definitions...

Fair enough. Helper's suggestion is right though, I'm looking for the variety of answers that might get at the root of the question. There should be a number of different definitions. If somebody lost his memory as a result of hitting that 'bump in the road' how would you respond to the question, 'what is a Church'. We say we're 'going to Church', what is a Church? Is it one person, two persons, a building, a theological philosophy, simply holding a belief in Christ, is it reading a book. I guess I don't have any other way to phrase it, 'What is Church'?

Don't make the mistake that I haven't already worked out an answer for myself (well OK, I almost have it worked – all I lack is a few details), I'm just curious as to how my opinion might compare with others.

JoeT

[Clough]

So, you would still seem to be just looking for a general definition as to what is a church, as defined based upon a general belief and understanding and not necessarily what a Christian thinks of what a church is.

Would that be correct?

[savedsinner7]

Church is the body of believers that meet to honor, worship and spend time together in the presence of the LORD. They meet to learn His Truth, build up each other and grow together in relationship with each other and with Him. Church can be held in a building, outside, a home or anywhere else two or more believers meet together. It is not limited to the common idea of the "building" that most hold. Jesus said "wherever two or more are gathered together in My Name, I am there."

[artlady]

A coming together of people in worship.

[Tj3]

Church is the body of believers that meet to honor, worship and spend time together in the presence of the LORD. They meet to learn His Truth, build up each other and grow together in relationship with each other and with Him. Church can be held in a building, outside, a home or anywhere else two or more believers meet together. It is not limited to the common idea of the "building" that most hold. Jesus said "wherever two or more are gathered together in My Name, I am there."

Excellent answer.

[JoeT777]

church is a body of believers in Jesus Christ. the members make the church acts 14:27. people have received Jesus as their savior.

Can you flesh this out a bit?

Are you religious or are you saved? 

During a religious ceremony, someone sprinkled water on my head. Religion teaches that when infants go through this ceremony, they will go to Heaven. They gave me a certificate saying, you are baptized unto salvation. Growing up, I believed what I was taught.

Then, one day I listened to some street preachers. I started to wonder if I really was going to Heaven. I read my Bible and realized that I’m a sinner on my way to Hell. The Bible says that Jesus came into the world to save sinners. So I asked Jesus to forgive me of my sins and save me. Now I know that when I die, I will go to Heaven. Let me ask you a question. Are you sure you will go to Heaven when you die?

Here’s how you can know:

Realize that you are a sinner.  Romans 3:23 says “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.”

Realize that the punishment on sin is eternal death in Hell.  Romans 6:23 says “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”

Realize that Jesus died in your place.  Romans 5:8 says “But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”

Trust only Jesus as your Savior.  Romans 10:9 says “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”

Ask Jesus to forgive you of your sins and save you.  Romans 10:13 says “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

You can call upon the Lord by praying something like this:

Dear Jesus, I admit that I’m a sinner, deserving of Hell. I believe you died on the cross for my sins and rose from the dead. Please forgive me of my sins and take me to heaven when I die. In Jesus name, Amen.

God‘s assurance of salvation.  John 10:27-28 says “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

Good works will not save you. Ephesians 2:8-9 says “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

Jesus is the only way to Heaven. John 14:6 says “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

I then got baptized as a public testimony of my salvation. This is my first act of obedience. I now hear the gospel preached at a Bible believing church called Faith Baptist Church in La Crosse, WI. If you would like to visit, the address is 3615 S. 28th St. Phone (608) 788-1165

Psalms 118:8 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.

This sinner would agree on many details of your testimony. I do agree that our central focus ought to be Christ. However, I’d suggest that it’s “with fear and trembling [we] work out [our] salvation.” Eph 2:12 not by faith alone; but faith with works. That being as it may, I hadn’t contemplated discussing the topic in this thread.

Thank you for your testimony.

JoeT

[Tj3]

However, I'd suggest that it's “with fear and trembling [we] work out [our] salvation.” Eph 2:12 not by faith alone; but faith with works.

Eph 2:12 reads much different in my Bible:

Eph 2:11-13
11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh--who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands-- 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
NKJV

I don't see works anywhere involved in salvation.

Eph 2:7-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
NKJV

[JoeT777]

So, you would still seem to be just looking for a general definition as to what is a church, as defined based upon a general belief and understanding and not necessarily what a Christian thinks of what a church is.

Would that be correct?

Not necessarily 'simple', just how you would define what it means to you. I sense a bit of trepidation; I don’t shy away from a good debate. To be honest I didn’t stop to contemplate just how complex this simple little question could get. I can understand your anxiety, as soon as you get beyond ‘Church’ as a building, there's a host of different ecumenical problems I hadn’t stopped to think about.

JoeT

[Clough]

A number of years ago, my kids and I took a trip. On a Sunday morning, we walked down to the Mississippi river, prayed and reflected on some things. As far as I am concerned, we had been to church. We are all Christians.

By the way, I'm not anxious and I'm certainly not looking for some kind of debate.

Thank you!

[JoeT777]

A number of years ago, my kids and I took a trip. On a Sunday morning, we walked down to the Mississippi river, prayed and reflected on some things. As far as I am concerned, we had been to church. We are all Christians.

By the way, I'm not anxious and I'm certainly not looking for some kind of debate.

Thank you!

I figured that.

[Clough]

Okay...

[arcura]

Joe,
I've been informed that when Jesus said that He would build His Church on a rock that He spoke of His Assembly in the language of the time in His land.
To me His assembly was His immediate followers who were apostles and disciples.
It was they who believed in Him, followed Him, and who did what He told them to do.
So I believe that even yet today His Church is 1. Christian and 2. Made up of followers LIKE those of His immediate assembly during His time on earth.
At that time they met together in various rooms or homes or out in the open somewhere like a hill top or garden.
Later, within the first hundred years some of the members of His assembly built special buildings in which to meet and worship.
Parts of some of those buildings still exist in various places such as the one that Saint Thomas and some followers built a Church Building in what today is India.
In places like ancient Rome where they were persecuted they met in secret often in homes or in the catacombs beneath the city.
I note that the Churches mentioned in the bible are of the sorts I have mentioned and that they were all started by the first apostles and maintained by them and disciples.
So I believe that a Church is not necessarily a building but can be and that it has a human leader such as an apostle and that it is made up of followers of Jesus Christ who meet in worship of God and do the things that Jesus instructed them to do such as pray, commune, and baptize as He taught.
Thank you for asking that question.
It caused me to really think about that.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[sndbay]

This is a very simple question, no conditions, no presuppositions. What is 'Church'?

JoeT

Genesis 28:20-22 And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on, So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God: And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

__________________________________________

But in the last days it shall come to pass: But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it.

Mic 4:2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

_____________________________________________

2 Cr 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

The Temple known as Christ Jesus

For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­_____________________________ _______________

Not desiring death which is of satan's work, But life with our Lord

2 Cr 5:8-9 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

_____________________________________________

What shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

1 Peter 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

[Tj3]

It depends upon the context. If you want to speak about the one true church that Jesus spoke about, the body of Christ, it is the body of all who have been saved by the true gospel who have existed since creation. It is not a denomination, an organization or a building.

If you want to speak of a manmade organization, we often call such organizations churches. But they are named this despite the fact that we know that each one contains unsaved persons. Some more than others, but membership in such an organization cannot guarantee membership in the body of Christ, so we know that there is a different.

If you want to speak about the building, it is so named because the original intent of such buildings was to house worship of the true God by the true church. But a building in temporary and the true church, the body of Christ is not.

[galveston]

My short answer:
The Church is the Body of Christ on Earth.
Its mission, briefly, is to exhibit the love of God, cast out evil spirits, heal the sick in body, and occasionally raise the dead, literally.

[Wondergirl]

I don't see works anywhere involved in salvation.

Eph 2:7-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
NKJV

I agree. Salvation is the work that Jesus did for us. Following that is sanctification, the work of the Holy Spirit to bring us to faith and to inspire us not only to love God but also to love others (good works, our thank-you to God).

[Akoue]

I agree. Salvation is the work that Jesus did for us. Following that is sanctification, the work of the Holy Spirit to bring us to faith and to inspire us not only to love God but also to love others (good works, our thank-you to God).

Hello, WG.

I don't believe I've ever read your take on the second chapter of the Epistle of James. What do you make of James 2.24, for instance: "See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone."

How do you understand the relation between justification and salvation?