[Tj3]

You never answered Akoue as to why defining such a broad term as "orientation" is relevant to this discussion about sexuality.

I did - I pointed out that if you and him are having such a problem with the word, mistaking it for things such as nautical orientation and orienteering, then it emphasizes the need to start at basics and make sure that you and Akoue understand what the word orientation means before we apply it to a specific area.

For example, if you did not understand what a "car" was, how could you be expected to know what a "blue car" was.

If you think that it is so easy or so obvious, just answer it and let's move on.

I reject what you think God's word says about homosexuality.

I quoted scripture, so you therefore reject God's word.

[Tj3]

I didn't avoid the question. I told head-on that I think it's a pointless diversion.

You avoided it nonetheless, regardless of you attempt to rationalize your avoidance. Oddly though, you have put more effort into avoiding the question than it would have taken to answer it, and your avoidance to me seems to be a pointless diversion, including the silly attempt to suggest that nautical and sexual mean "generic".

I even invited you to tell me what on earth the relevance could possibly be

Which I have done twice now - but apparently you ignored that also.

[Wondergirl]

I did - I pointed out that if you and him are having such a problem

It's "you and he" -- subjects of the clause, so nominative case.

orientation

The discussion is about sexual orientation only.

I quoted scripture, so you therefore reject God's word.

No, you quoted your version of Scripture.

[Akoue]

You avoided it nonetheless, regardless of you attempt to rationalize your avoidance. Oddly though, you have put more effort into avoiding the question than it would have taken to answer it, and your avoidance to me seems to be a pointless diversion, including the silly attempt to suggest that nautical and sexual mean "generic".



Which I have done twice now - but apparently you ignored that also.

Yes, and I took your answer to be a joke, since it was pretty clear that I didn't mistake the relevant sense of "orientation" to be its nautical usage. I have endorsed the definition that Wondergirl has offered several times now, so you can safely assume that I understand what the term "sexual orientation" means. Is that good enough? Can you unstick yourself from this little ploy and move on? If it makes you feel any better, I have already consulted the OED and can see no relevant usage of "orientation" other than that provided by Wondergirl. If you find one or more of its other usages to be relevant, please explain which one and WHY.

Oh, and you should distinguish between reason and rationalization. I gave my reason for refusing to play along with what looks increasingly like a debater's ploy. That was me telling you right then and there why I'm not going along with that. If it isn't a ploy (one which is quite common in debating, as I'm sure you know), then you'll have to explain why on earth we should depart the present topic for another.

[Wondergirl]

That was me telling you right then and there why I'm not going along with that.

Just curious -- is "telling" a gerund and needs a possessive pronoun, or is this construction acceptable?

[Tj3]

It's "you and he" -- subjects of the clause, so nominative case.

Ho hum - if you were so picky about dealing with the issue at hand we would waste less time.

The discussion is about sexual orientation only.

You do not appear to understand the difference between orientation and orienteering. Do you think that we are discussing "sexual orienteerring"? Maybe you could study some of Akoue's "generic / sexual drugs".

No, you quoted your version of Scripture.

I did not translate the NKJV.

[Akoue]

Just curious -- is "telling" a gerund and needs a possessive pronoun, or is this construction acceptable?

Yeah, that's okay. You could go with "my telling of you", but that sounds archaic and stilted.

[Tj3]

Yes, and I took your answer to be a joke, since it was pretty clear that I didn't mistake the relevant sense of "orientation" to be its nautical usage.

Then it was a matter of avoidance.

I have endorsed the definition that Wondergirl has offered several times now,

She also avoided defining the term orientation.

So you can safely assume that I understand what the term "sexual orientation" means.

Not if you think "generic" means "sexual" and if Wondergirl thinks orientation is orienteering.

[cozyk]

It always comes back to go after the person rather than issue, doesn't it?

You of course avoided my question about orientation also.

I'm so confused now:confused: I don't know what the original question OR answers are.
Could you just print this out in a nutshell?

[Wondergirl]

ho hum - if you were so picky about dealing with the issue at hand we would waste less time.

Your occasional ad hominems are a bit wearing.

I did not translate the NKJV.

We long ago discussed the particular words in the verses you continually use as proof passages.

[cozyk]

I quoted scripture, so you therefore reject God's word.

[/QUOTE]

Assuming one believes scripture IS God's word. That is a HUGE assumption to believe that it is.

[Tj3]

I quoted scripture, so you therefore reject God's word.

Assuming one believes scripture IS God's word. That is a HUGE assumption to believe that it is.

Good point. Maybe she rejects scripture as being God's word.

[Wondergirl]

Good point. Maybe she rejects scripture as being God's word.

Only improperly translated and interpreted Scripture.

[Tj3]

Your occasional ad hominems are a bit wearing.

Perhaps you should look up the term "ad hominem,s" also. If you are being so picky with others, you may want to consider your precision in the use of the English language.

We long ago discussed the particular words in the verses you continually use as proof passages.

So why are you still at odds with scripture? Is it as someone else suggested that perhaps you do not accept the Bible as God's word?

[Tj3]

Only improperly translated and interpreted Scripture.

And are you telling me that the experts are wrong and that your opinion must be accepted?

[Wondergirl]

So why are you still at odds with scripture? Is it as someone else suggested that perhaps you do not accept the Bible as God's word?

That's not what she said. Clean your glasses, please.

Whatever happened to your answers to my questions? I answered yours.

[Tj3]

I'm so confused now:confused: I don't know what the original question OR answers are.
Could you just print this out in a nutshell?

Akoue and Wondergirl appear confused about what an "orientation" is and I am trying to get this clarified so that we do not continue to waste time I have asked both of them to tell me what they believe a generic "orientation" is.

Second, Wondergirl put up a post which appeared to suggest that homosexuality was a mental defect / illness or sin. She made it clear that she does not feel that it is a sin but when asked to clarify what she does think about whether she believs therefore that homosexuality is a mental defect / illness, she won't respond.

[Wondergirl]

Is it as someone else suggested that perhaps you do not accept the Bible as God's word?

Methinks she was referring to you.

[Tj3]

That's not what she said. Clean your glasses, please.

Well you keep beating around the bush - perhaps if we got some clear straightforward answers we would know what you are trying to say. But you keep avoiding the questions.

Whatever happened to your answers to my questions? I answered yours.

Where did you answer them? I have not seen the answers yet.

[cozyk]

Autism is a defect that occurs - we know that.



So you are saying that homosexual may be a brain defect.

If it were, God would not condemn it as sin. Why is it that homosexuals can change? Why is it that scripture records that homosexuals changed when they received Jesus as Saviour?

I never said homosexuality was or may be a brain defect. We don't KNOW what happens. I don't know if autism is a brain defect, chromosome defect like fragile X syndrome or what. We just know that something occurred that was not "Gods plan"

The same goes for homosexuality. The male and female anatomy tells us God's plan was for these two sexes to come together to procreate. BUT, whether something "unplanned" happens in utero with the hormones, or brain activity, or whatever, something DOES happen that causes a person to be drawn to a same sex person. This is not a sin and should not be condemned as one. Especially by people that have not experienced it. It takes a lot of audacity to claim to know what God says about these people. It certainly does NOT square up with the all loving God we profess to believe in.

I don't believe homosexuals change. They may stop the activities, but they are still gay. It is not the action, it's the orientation. What scripture "records" is not necessarily fact.