[Wondergirl]

If you wish to suffer under that delusion, I cannot stop you. But if that is you attitude, then I must assume that you are merely answer my request by confirming that you have no answer to mine.

Ah -- that means you know the answers. Do you remember the questions, or should I repost them?

[Tj3]

I got to agree with you here. My nephew was born with autism. Was that God's plan?

Autism is a defect that occurs - we know that.

Maybe something went wrong in the formation of "opposite sex attraction" just as something went wrong in the "brain activity" formation of my nephew.

So you are saying that homosexual may be a brain defect.

If it were, God would not condemn it as sin. Why is it that homosexuals can change? Why is it that scripture records that homosexuals changed when they received Jesus as Saviour?

[Tj3]

Ah -- that means you know the answers. Do you remember the questions, or should I repost them?

Sure - right after you answer mine.

[talaniman]

How does this relate to Bobalina?

[Tj3]

How does this relate to Bobalina??

The question was whether it is right to be a homosexual.

Wondergirl appears to be saying that it is okay because it is a mental defect of some sort, and scripture says that it is sin.

[Wondergirl]

Oh, yeah -- you never asked my earlier question either: "At what age did you chose to be heterosexual?"

[Tj3]

Oh, yeah -- you never asked my earlier question either: "At what age did you chose to be heterosexual?"

I did answer it - directly. I may have specifically responded to Akoue's variant of the question, but I answered it nonetheless. I guess that you skipped over that post. Go back and have a look.

Now, how about an answer to my questions i.e.:

- What do you believe an orientation is?
- Do you believe that homosexuality is a mental defect / illness or a sin?

[Akoue]

I did answer it - directly. I may have specifically responded to Akoue's variant of the question, but I answered it nonetheless. I guess that you skipped over that post. Go back and have a look.

Now, how about an answer to my questions i.e.:

- What do you believe an orientation is?
- Do you believe that homosexuality is a mental defect / illness or a sin?

I'm unaware of having asked any version of that question. I noted that Wondergirl did and was interested to read your answer.

[Wondergirl]

I gotta agree with you here. My nephew was born with autism. Was that God's plan? Maybe, just maybe classy t and is it Tom? (Sorry if I got your name wrong) Maybe something went wrong in the formation of "opposite sex attraction" just as something went wrong in the "brain activity" formation of my nephew. You don't see his "mis" formation being condemned. Why should you condemn homosexuality then? Why would God shun something like this. I don't believe he does and you can show me scripture to back up your assertion all day long, but I don't consider it as fact. It's just words written from long ago that could be misconstrued in many ways. Just like we humans are born with the possibility of our formation being misconstrued in many ways.

My older son is autistic. And no, autism was not in God's plan. There was no autism in the Garden of Eden (or in the perfect world God had created).

When a baby begins, it is female. Along the way, that little girl gets a bath in testosterone, a male hormone. Some of those little girls become little boys. Maybe that bath confuses things. I don't know. I do know some children are born with external sex characteristics that don't match their sex hormones inside. They grow up with a uterus and vagina but male hormones, or a penis and testicles but inside are female hormones. That's not what God intended. But should we condemn those children and the adults they become?

[Tj3]

When a baby begins, it is female. Along the way, that little girl gets a bath in testosterone, a male hormone. Some of those little girls become little boys. Maybe that bath confuses things. I don't know. I do know some children are born with external sex characteristics that don't match their sex hormones inside. They grow up with a uterus and vagina but male hormones, or a penis and testicles but inside are female hormones. That's not what God intended. But should we condemn those children and the adults they become?

An interesting theory, but let's stick to the facts.

Should we condemn them you ask? We should condemn no one - But we should accept what God said and condemn the sin of homosexuality.

[Wondergirl]

- What do you believe an orientation is?
- Do you believe that homosexuality is a mental defect / illness or a sin?

I have answered both of those. Go back and find my answers. They are there (somewhere in the debris of your obfuscating).

[Tj3]

I have answered both of those. Go back and find my answers. They are there (somewhere in the debris of your obfuscating).

No, you altered the question - you did not answer them.

[Tj3]

I'm unaware of having asked any version of that question. I noted that Wondergirl did and was interested to read your answer.

I stand corrected - she asked two variations of the question, so I did answer hers directly.

[Akoue]

Now play by the rules, Wondergirl. Do as Tom says not as he does.

[Tj3]

Now play by the rules, Wondergirl. Do as Tom says not as he does.

It always comes back to go after the person rather than issue, doesn't it?

You of course avoided my question about orientation also.

[Wondergirl]

- What do you believe an orientation is?
- Do you believe that homosexuality is a mental defect / illness or a sin?

*with great patience*
I said I will go with Wikipedia's answer for sexual orientation, which is what we are discussing here. Not orienteering or even facing east.

No. Neither heterosexuality nor homosexuality is a sin.

Now answer my three questions, please.

[Tj3]

*with great patience*
I said I will go with Wikipedia's answer for sexual orientation, which is what we are discussing here. Not orienteering or even facing east.

No one even discussed or asked about orienteering. I did however ask what you though "orientation" (as a generic term) means.

You still avoid it I see.

No. Neither heterosexuality nor homosexuality is a sin.

So you reject God's word regarding homosexuality?

[Wondergirl]

Now play by the rules, Wondergirl. Do as Tom says not as he does.

I'm sorry, Akoue. I think it might be contagious. Be careful.

[Wondergirl]

No one even discussed or asked about orienteering. I did however ask what you though "orientation" (as a generic term) means.

You still avoid it I see.

You never answered Akoue as to why defining such a broad term as "orientation" is relevant to this discussion about sexuality.

So you reject God's word regarding homosexuality?

I reject what you think God's word says about homosexuality.

[Akoue]

It always comes back to go after the person rather than issue, doesn't it?

You of course avoided my question about orientation also.

I didn't avoid the question. I told head-on that I think it's a pointless diversion. I even invited you to tell me what on earth the relevance could possibly be, since we are talking about sexual orientation and have a definition of that on offer. You seem to think that talking about orientation in general is important. Unless you can explain why, I see no reason to indulge you. I'm not particularly interested in a definition of "orientation" in general, since that would have to apply to nautical usages as well as the one that is actually, you know, relevant, to wit, sexual orientation. Sometimes it's useful to "ascend to the universal"; here I think it would be obfuscating and distracting.