[Tj3]

Same question to you. When did you choose to be heterosexual instead of homosexual?

Scripture says that we are created man and woman, not created homosexual. As the quote that I gave from Romans says is that God has condemned homosexuals. Does God create people as homosexuals and then condemn them for being what He created them? Is that your view of God?

[classyT]

Scripture says that we are created man and woman, not created homosexual. As the quote that I gave from Romans says is that God has condemned homosexuals. Does God create people as homosexuals and then condemn them for being what He created them? Is that your view of God?

Tj3,

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Tj3]

I might be more inclined to humor you if it didn't seem so much like a pointless diversion. We're talking about sexual orientation. A definition of "sexual orientation" has been proffered. I can see no reason not to stay on subject. If the nautical meaning of "orientation" is relevant in any way, I confess I must be stupid, because I just don't see how.

Do you understand the word "generic"? You may wish to look it up in the dictionary. It does not mean "nautical". Your mis-understanding of what the word orientation means may explain some of the difficultly we are having in discussing this topic.

[Akoue]

LOL...birth defects aren't sin. sin is a choice.

Right. So if someone is born homosexual, then they are not in sin just for being homosexual. If they act on that, though, that's another story. Right?

[Wondergirl]

wondergirl,

I was BORN that way.

As were 98% of the homosexuals in the world.

Your drug problem was choice, as is cigarette smoking, overeating, drug use, driving without a license, and drinking to excess. You may have been born with a tendency/weakness for drug use, if one or both of your parents had their brain chemistry screwed up by drugs and thus your brain chemistry got screwed up too (synapses don't fire correctly, neurotransmitters go to the wrong receptors, etc.) -- you inherited those weaknesses. You could have said no, but it was easier to give in and it make your body happier when you gave in.

[Tj3]

Right. So if someone is born homosexual, then they are not in sin just for being homosexual. If they act on that, though, that's another story. Right?

But saying that they are born that way contradicts scripture as I just showed.

[Akoue]

Do you understand the word "generic"? You may wish to look it up in the dictionary. It does not mean "nautical". Your mis-understanding of what the word orientation means may explain some of the difficultly we are having in discussing this topic.

If you say so. I've already endorsed the definition Wondergirl provided, and nowhere in the definiens is the word "orientation" included, so I'm pretty sure I understand the definition. And I'm reasonably confidant that I understand the meaning of "attraction" as it occurs there. Do you?

[Tj3]

As were 98% of the homosexuals in the world.

Really? That is contrary to both scripture and secular findings.

[Akoue]

But saying that they are born that way contradicts scripture as I just showed.

See my reply to ClassyT: Depends how you understand "natural". If "unnatural" means something like "violates the law of God", then the Scripture you cited is perfectly compatible with one's being born homosexual. The word "natural" gets used in lots of different ways. One has to be careful how one uses it, and how one reads it.

[Wondergirl]

Really? That is contrary to both scripture and secular findings.

And those are?

[classyT]

Wondergirl and Akoue,

I'm not the one who said it was unnatural... God did. I didn't define what sin was... God did. I didn't set the standard God did. I mean I am only getting my info from the word of God. I'm not hating on homosexuals, I'm not belittling anyone. I'm Not setting the standard of right and wrong. I'm getting this from the word.He said it is wrong and I agree with Tj3. Why would the Lord make someone homosexual and then condemn them for it??

[Tj3]

If you say so. I've already endorsed the definition Wondergirl provided, and nowhere in the definiens is the word "orientation" included, so I'm pretty sure I understand the definition. And I'm reasonably confidant that I understand the meaning of "attraction" as it occurs there. Do you?

Again, "generic" does not mean sexual. If you think it does, you might have a rather embarrassing mis-understanding if you find out that your drug plan at work only pays for "generic" drugs.

[Tj3]

And those are?

Wow - over 250 messages discussing scripture and you missed the entire discussion?

And from the secular world, not a single credible study has yet concluded that sexual orientation was something that people are born with.

[Wondergirl]

Wondergirl and Akoue,

I'm not the one who said it was unnatural...God did. I didn't define what sin was...God did. I didn't set the standard God did. I mean I am only getting my info from the word of God. I'm not hatin on homosexuals, I'm not belittling anyone. I'm Not setting the standard of right and wrong. I'm getting this from the word.He said it is wrong and I agree with Tj3. Why would the Lord make someone homosexual and then condemn them for it???

Of course homosexuality was not part of God's plan when He created a perfect world. And yes, homosexuality wasn't part of the picture -- He created men and women to be fruitful and multiply. But then something happened to upset God's plan, didn't it. Adam and Eve ate from the forbidden tree. God's perfect plan was no more. The world became imperfect, and death happened. As people were born into the world, they were born imperfect -- with physical and mental defects and illnesses. They died before or at birth. They also were born not only as heterosexuals, but also as homosexuals.

[Wondergirl]

Again, "generic" does not mean sexual. If you think it does, you might have a rather embarassing mis-understanding if you find out that your drug plan at work only pays for "generic" drugs.

Our discussion is about sexuality and sexual orientation. Why do you want to go orienteering?

[Tj3]

Of course homosexuality was not part of God's plan when He created a perfect world. And yes, it's not natural in that He created men and women to be fruitful and multiply. But then something happened to upset God's plan, didn't it. Adam and Eve ate from the forbidden tree. God's perfect plan was no more. The world became imperfect, and death happened. As people were born into the world, they were born imperfect -- with physical and mental defects and illnesses. They died before or at birth. They also were born not only as heterosexuals, but also as homosexuals.

So you are saying homosexuality is a mental defect or metal illness?

Then why would God condemn those who are homosexuals?

BTW, in my opinion, I would think homosexuals would be more insulted by someone saying that they had a mental illness or defect at birth rather than that homosecxuality is what scripture says, a sin.

Jesus came and died on the cross that we have an answer for sin, and homosexuals have been changed by the blood shed on the cross according to scripture.

[Tj3]

Our discussion is about sexuality and sexual orientation. Why do you want to go orienteering?

You and Akoue seem to have some difficulties with the English language, specigfically the words "generic" and "orientation". I never saw anyone with that specific problem before, let alone two. Perhaps there is something that scares the both of you about acknowledging what the word orientation means.

[Wondergirl]

So you are saying homosexuality is a mental defect or metal illness?

No, if you read carefully, you will see that I said homosexuality came about because of the Fall -- like army ants and black widow spiders and weeds. None of those were part of a perfect Creation.

[Tj3]

So you are saying homosexuality is a mental defect or metal illness?[quopte]
No, if you read carefully, you will see that I said homosexuality came about because of the Fall.

Then please be clear - are you saying that it is a mental defect or sin? You were the one who brought up the terms mental defect and mental illness.

[Akoue]

You and Akoue seem to have some difficulties with the English language, specigfically the words "generic" and "orientation". I never saw anyone with that specific problem before, let alone two. Perhaps there is something that scares the both of you about acknowledging what the word orientation means.

Interesting that you would rush to that particular conclusion. Typically, when one or more person fails to understand what one has said, the first thing to pop into mind would be, "Gee, maybe it's my fault". Nope. Not you.