[asking]

She's open to discussing it and having a good time together. I mostly listened, as I said I would.

"Open to discussing it and having a good time together" is just that, no more. Please internalize that and not push for more.

Discussion, not conclusion.

Keep it light, have a good time; don't look for an answer this weekend.

Don't hold her to anything she says in the moment, or to be nice because you put her on the spot. Don't put her on the spot. :)

Good luck!

[greatbignow]

Just to be clear, no I don't agree with this. If you think the message board is supporting your interpretation, I, for one, am not.

I think you are reading too much into too little, and over the last few days you have let yourself run away with it.

I don't think that because she didn't rule things out, that she has therefore committed to doing them or is even very open to them. I feel like you are not listening to her words, which have been that she does not think it's likely that you two will get back together. If you ascribe all this intent to her without her having said any of it and you then either overwhelm her and draw her back in against her better judgement because she wants to get along or you get upset when she says no to any of your current hopes, then you are not listening to her and respecting what she has said to you. It's like you are letting your interpretation of what you think she ought to be saying supercede what she has really said. You need to get out of her head and let her think her own thoughts and tell you what she wants to say. She doesn't need you to do that for her.

I think you need to massively rein in your expectations and show more respect for the process.

Her exact expression when you meet is NOT the key to the rest of your life. If she looks down, it may be for a hundred reasons unrelated to you--bad traffic, bad news unrelated to you. If she looks warm, don't assume that means you are back on as married. This is a separate person; please stop thinking you know everything she's feeling. Also, it's normal for people married a long time to have habits of warmth at times. That's not diagnostic of your future together.

Reduce expectations of this meeting, give her space, stop trying to read her mind. Instead, hear and acknowledge what she's actually saying to you.

PS. That's not to say you shouldn't be positive and warm. But if you really want her back, let her decide what she is saying and, importantly, what she wants to do. Don't assume anything.

Woah, I didn't say it was the key to the rest of my life; I'm no psychic. Read it again please. Also, that's why I spoke with her at length last night; I wanted to make it perfectly clear that I was not misinterpreting ANYTHING... and said that very thing as well... However, she did say last night that she wants to talk more about these things this weekend. She didn't say no, but given the method of her departure, there wasn't any time for communication and she wasn't willing to hear anything but that I'm a horrid father and husband, and she needs to get away no matter the cost. Now that she's been away for a month, it would appear she is beginning to see that you can't really run away from your problems, and that I'm not the root of her problems. Anyway, she was very warm and open to discussing our relationship, and wants to visit and talk more this weekend. Her vehicle broke down as well, and so I'm going to have to drive up there and pick them up. She asked if I would. Now, call me silly but we're going to be driving together for a pretty long time (4 hours each way); if she wanted nothing to do with me that wouldn't even be a request and she wouldn't want to be with me for that long. So, the kids are going to stay at her dad's house and we're going to take care of some business and try to enjoy one another's company.

[greatbignow]

"Open to discussing it and having a good time together" is just that, no more. Please internalize that and not push for more.

Discussion, not conclusion.

Keep it light, have a good time; don't look for an answer this weekend.

Don't hold her to anything she says in the moment, or to be nice because you put her on the spot. Don't put her on the spot. :)

Good luck!

Understood, but also know that I asked what her intentions were last night because I don't feel like misunderstanding or misconstruing her comments. She did reveal that a major source of resentment and hatred towards me was due to a lack of sexual intimacy (over six months now). Might sound odd coming from the female partner, but I just wasn't into it and could have gone without. She is not that way, and this was revealed last night. I always figured we'd discuss our problems before they reached critical mass, which I think she also appreciated hearing. So, for what it's worth I think a lot of this was the result of sexual frustration. She also said that she could have reacted more favorably and instead of getting angry she could have been warmer and tried to find out what was wrong and communicated her desires. If you earnestly love your partner and are willing to communicate your issues, most other things work themselves out. Kind of sad to think that this all might have been avoided had I taken "care of business" in the bedroom... it's not everything, of course, but she might not have gone over the edge.

[Wondergirl]

I mostly listened, as I said I would.

But did you actually take in and absorb what she said?

[asking]

She did reveal that a major source of resentment and hatred towards me was due to a lack of sexual intimacy (over six months now). Might sound odd coming from the female partner, but I just wasn't into it and could have gone without.

If you read this board much you find that this is not odd, but extremely common. My impression from reading here (no stats) is that it's more often women who are sexually frustrated in a marriage than men.

Kind of sad to think that this all might have been avoided had I taken "care of business" in the bedroom... it's not everything, of course, but she might not have gone over the edge.

It IS kind of sad.

But I don't think it's respectful to say she "went over the edge." You had mentioned that this was an issue in your initial post/or early on. It's a significant issue for a lot of women.

I don't know where the idea came from that women don't like sex. I suppose it's a holdover from when there was no birth control and fear of pregnancy was an issue and intercourse was so often inflicted on them when they were unwilling. Most of the time, those don't apply anymore.

[greatbignow]

If you read this board much you find that this is not odd, but extremely common. My impression from reading here (no stats) is that it's more often women who are sexually frustrated in a marriage than men.



It IS kind of sad.

But I don't think it's respectful to say she "went over the edge." You had mentioned that this was an issue in your initial post/or early on. It's a significant issue for a lot of women.

I don't know where the idea came from that women don't like sex. I suppose it's a holdover from when there was no birth control and fear of pregnancy was an issue and intercourse was so often inflicted on them when they were unwilling. Most of the time, those don't apply anymore.

I'll rephrase that. When I say "over the edge" I mean moving the children to another school (especially our child with autism; he really doesn't tolerate change well and we usually take great pains to keep his world consistent), and leaving without ever sitting down and discussing these issues with me to try and resolve them first. I would have listened, which I hope is what she took away from our conversation last night. I WOULD HAVE LISTENED, and it might have saved a whole lot of pain and suffering, not to mention life-altering decisions... but if the partner doesn't communicate how seriously unhappy they are, then the other really has no clue and it shouldn't be assumed that they don't know or don't care (I didn't know, for that matter).

I'll have to give you that one; the stereotype of women not wanting sex runs rampant and I thought my wife was rather unusual for wanting it often. I used to really like that, but the past year it's been a chore, and the past six months I've neglected that part of our relationship altogether.

Her words,

"I understand that we get older and things slow down, but NEVER?"

Also, I only brought up that issue because it has been an obvious point of contention for her. I do want to please her, of course.

We also discussed that the last time we had "our" time was two years ago when we took a weekend to ourselves and spent the night out of town simply enjoying each other in a resort town. It was fun, and we both had a great time. That's something else we need to focus on, instead of merely working all the time and being parents. She agreed.

[Wondergirl]

But I don't think it's respectful to say she "went over the edge." You had mentioned that this was an issue in your initial post/or early on. It's a significant issue for a lot of women.

And she may have missed more than the sex act. She may have missed the romance and emotional intimacy -- the pat on the arm or your hand srtroking the curve of her cheek while the two of you were driving somewhere, knowing looks exchanged (indicating you're on the same page mentally), your gentle pat on her behind as you walk past her at the sink in the kitchen, doing a slow dance in the living room while Johnny Mathis (Beyonce?) croons. That's "making love" 24/7.

Speaking of Beyonce, watch a Youtube of the Obamas dancing on Inauguration Night or just note how the Obamas act toward each other when they are together. I'm betting that's what the OP's wife would love to experience.

[greatbignow]

And she may have missed more than the sex act. She may have missed the romance and emotional intimacy -- the pat on the arm or your hand srtroking the curve of her cheek while the two of you were driving somewhere, knowing looks exchanged (indicating you're on the same page mentally), your gentle pat on her behind as you walk past her at the sink in the kitchen, doing a slow dance in the living room while Johnny Mathis (Beyonce?) croons. That's "making love" 24/7.

Speaking of Beyonce, watch a Youtube of the Obamas dancing on Inauguration Night or just note how the Obamas act toward each other when they are together. I'm betting that's what the OP's wife would love to experience.

I hear you (or, I read you... ;)). Right, it's the closeness as well... there's no arguing it: life is tough, and the world is a fairly cold place. Romantic intimacy is one of the few things that reminds us it isn't like that everywhere and all the time. Geez, this has been the longest week for me... I figure after this weekend we'll at least have a solid plan either way. Either I get a small cabin with all utilities paid by myself, or we see about merely getting a smaller house... or, we just agree to keep the communication open and see how things go with no commitment either way.

[greatbignow]

But did you actually take in and absorb what she said?

Um, I think I did.

[talaniman]

Don't be fooled, as the lack of sex, or intimacy, between long term partners, is only a symptom of a greater problem that needs to be addressed.

[greatbignow]

Don't be fooled, as the lack of sex, or intimacy, between long term partners, is only a symptom of a greater problem that needs to be addressed.

Understood. She called this morning at about 7:30 a.m. to make sure we're still on for this weekend. It is superbowl weekend, which is important to her... she loves football; I couldn't care less about it. Still, I wanted to make sure we were both on the same page regarding this weekend. I told her that I don't want to be the only one trying to make our marriage work, and that I'm not driving a total of 16 hours just so she can pick up her stuff and move a few things into storage. She said she understood, and that her intention was to talk about our future & marriage as well and see if it could be worked out somehow. So, early tomorrow morning I'll drive 4 hours to pick her and the children up; take the children to her father's, and then come back home with her; we'll go out and have a good time, and then come back to the house; she's going to stay the night at home with me, but we'll see how sleeping arrangements work out; I have the intention of seeing what she wants to do. Personally, I miss her at night so much it hurts and want to sleep in the same bed, but I'll see what she prefers. However, I get the impression that she also might feel the same way, and once that gets started you know what's coming next... I think it would be a good thing, even if it doesn't necessarily end with her coming home. Go on a date, possibly become intimate, and determine a plan for our future; that's my goal for this weekend. It could very well end with merely deciding to do that again in a few weeks... I just don't know. We plan on discussing our relationship and hopefully reconcile some of our differences (which were never discussed), while at the same time trying to have a good time and focusing on our relationship. If all goes well, this could be a weekend of reconciliation... not sure she'd move back yet, but at least we could work on it. I'm also showing her that I'm willing to do what it takes for our family to be together and happy. Lack of intimacy was a big problem for her, and I have to say that while I enjoyed it I slipped into a depression and anxiety that made it difficult for me to respond to her or even want to try and spend time alone together. Also, I quit taking my depression medication about six months ago, which probably didn't help the situation either. I loved my wife and found her attractive (she is, in fact, an attractive woman), but I just felt too lethargic and depressed to engage in much of anything with her. We (I, primarily) were surrounded by our children all the time, and never had any time for each other. We discussed how much we used to enjoy talking to each other about various issues (politics, social issues, science, ect; we used to watch The Universe on the History Channel because we both loved the idea of space and space exploration), and we do miss having each other around to discuss these things. Even though we differ politically (she's ultra-conservative Republican, I'm a more liberal Independent; we disagree on almost every political issue there is!), we always enjoyed engaging each other in coversation. I miss my wife, plain and simple. I'm going to show her that I love her and that I want things to work out...

[talaniman]

Seems after 13 years you would know how to make love to her mind.

[Wondergirl]

And remember... channel Carl Rogers. Empathy, empathy, empathy. Active listening. Good eye contact. Effective body language. Get inside her skin. Listen to her and hear what she says. Less from you and more from her. Have some great snacks for the football game.

We will expect a report.

[greatbignow]

Seems after 13 years you would know how to make love to her mind.

Right, that's why I wrote this:

"We discussed how much we used to enjoy talking to each other about various issues (politics, social issues, science, ect; we used to watch The Universe on the History Channel because we both loved the idea of space and space exploration), and we do miss having each other around to discuss these things. Even though we differ politically (she's ultra-conservative Republican, I'm a more liberal Independent; we disagree on almost every political issue there is!), we always enjoyed engaging each other in coversation. I miss my wife, plain and simple. I'm going to show her that I love her and that I want things to work out..."

[talaniman]

I think you miss each other, so just act like it. ( no kids huh!! )

[sylvan_1998]

Good luck. I have been following this from the start. I agree with wondergirl LISTEN more than you talk. ANd you don't have to be right.

Listen Validate Learn and Love. You have the drive. Now you just need to engage the tools.

Good Luck

[greatbignow]

Good luck. I have been following this from the start. I agree with wondergirl LISTEN more than you talk. ANd you dont have to be right.

Listen Validate Learn and Love. You have the drive. Now you just need to engage the tools.

Good Luck

That's one thing I've definitely learned in life; you can be right, or you can (in my case, have my family) be loved.

I don't have to be right; there's no prize for being so...

[greatbignow]

Good luck. I have been following this from the start. I agree with wondergirl LISTEN more than you talk. ANd you dont have to be right.

Listen Validate Learn and Love. You have the drive. Now you just need to engage the tools.

Good Luck

And I literally, "have the drive" because she lives 4 hours away and I have to pick her up, drop off the kids, come back here, and then take her back on Sunday while then driving back here... plenty of time to listen.

[Joey6732]

Stay the course of patience and understanding. Don't pursue, argue or even suggest. In due time she can come to her senses and return hopefully not too long before it takes its toll on the children. Also for your own financial security and that of your children, do not voluntarily offer support. Only through consulting with an attorney will you protect your children's welfare and your own financial stability. Allow emotions to drive everything will only help you get burned and hurt your children in the long term. It doesn't mean you will file for a divorce but seeking the advice of an attorney NOW will help tons in the future. Good Luck and God Bless.

[greatbignow]

Ok, the weekend has come and gone. Some good things transpired, and some not so good. For starters, we slept together, but didn't [I]sleep[I]together; it was so nice just having her next to me and being able to "snuggle" with my wife. She said that our son is angry with her and blames her for "taking my father away" which does bother her quite a bit and weighs on her mind. Some things we just had to agree to disagree, and I have to tell you I'm not happy at all about being forced to live in a 1-room cabin at the KOA campground after working hard for so many years to improve our lives. It's a lose-lose situation. If it works out, we've lost most of our belongings and furniture which will have to be replaced to the tune of thousands of dollars. If it doesn't, I lose my family. I just didn't understand why we can't try to work this out while maintaining our family's social, financial, and educational structure (also, how can we work this out if we're 4 hours away?); what is gained by tearing our family apart, and how can it possibly be justified?

She did cry a few times while we went through our belongings and threw most of them away. She said it wasn't easy and that she really doesn't like tearing our family apart, and that she panicked which led to her leaving so quickly & unpredictably. For the first time, she expressed an emotion other than anger regarding our separation (and towards me). Also, she said she hates being almost 40 and being forced to live with her parents and depend on them financially. I told her, "It doesn't have to be this way! Come home, we can go to counseling and that way at least be self-sufficient and in a position where we can deal with each other on a regular basis to see if this will work out."

She also said that if she does decide to come back, it's going to be for good and "until one or both of us are dead." I took her out to a nice pizza place (it's a hole in the wall, but they have the BEST pizza around and also serve microbrews... unlike most of the establishments around here), which she apparently enjoyed.

I also told her that while I don't expect a solid answer right now, but that as long as she doesn't confirm what she wants I'll have to make plans for the future. I've applied to two different Ph.D. programs... one close to her, and one far away. She asked when I'd need to know, because once I leave my job and head out of state I'm not turning around to come back here; it will truly be too late for me. Also, I take particular issue with whether she begins seeing anyone else; that's another line I'm not willing to cross with hopes of reconciliation... she says she has no intention of doing that sort of thing. Difficult to pack the entire weekend into a few paragraphs, but it ended with two kisses and a commitment on her part to try marriage counseling. Neither one of us wants to be miserable, or the other to be miserable. I am tired of fighting with my spouse. So, I now have the task of finding marriage counseling that won't be conducted by anyone at my place of employment (hey, some of these issues get really dicey), and I'd rather not end up having our marriage counselor being on a committee that decides whether I might get a promotion or something like that; at a small university of 3000 students that can happen.

We spoke for hours, all the while she let me hold her and love on her. I told her that my relationship with her is the single most important thing in my life (might sound odd to our divorce-generation but I firmly believe that a happy family starts with a happy/healthy marriage), and that I really want to work this out if at all possible.


In the end, she agreed to try counseling and said that she'd drive down for it and make time with her work schedule. Considering it's a 4-hour drive each way, I see that as a commitment to our marriage and family. It's not exactly what I wanted, and like I said, I really resent being forced to live like a homeless person while she gets to live with her mother rent-free in a nice home while I'm also saddled with all of our financial obligations other than groceries and the like. So, there it is; in a nutshell. Feel free to ask any other questions, and I'll likely remember and elaborate.