[cozyk]

I am a married man who honors his vows.

I could have sworn you were a woman:eek: With a name like Maria and all.



Didn't I already answer that?

Keeping the Law of Jesus one fulfills the Law of Moses:
Romans 3:31
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

;)

[LENA11]

I've spent much of today reading post about the word "know" vs the word belief.
I've always thought the word "know" was thrown around too loosely. For example. I BELIEVE that my dog in the next room is still breathing. I would not KNOW it, unless I went to him and saw his chest rise, etc.

There are VERY FEW things in this world that we can say we know100% . If I said "I know my car is still in the garage" I'd feel pretty confident with that assumption. BUT, if I was ask to bet my child's life on that, I would very quickly reduce that KNOW to an "I BELIEVE my car is still in the garage.

Now, everyone seems to be getting this except Tom. He insist that he knows there is a god, there is proof of god and he has evidence to back it up. The only thing is, you haven't showed us your proof or evidence. I happen to believe there IS a god, but notice I said believe.

Please share your proof with me. Bible scripture does not do it because there is no proof that it is correct.

That is only for you to really want to find out if their is a God, If you ask and believe in the holy spirt and ask him to come into your life, you would not what I mean and feel th epowerful presence of the holy sprit in you...

[Wondergirl]

Keeping the Law of Jesus one fulfills the Law of Moses:
Romans 3:31
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

So we obey the one (about homosexuality), but not the other (do not cut hair and beard).

[simoneaugie]

I pray Catholicism will never ensnare my mind and heart with it's rules, judgements, teachings and sureness that because something has been read and believed for 7000 years (plus 2000?) it must be the truth. The only truths you Catholics have have shared here is that you are both condemning and controlling, oh, you teach to save us from one of your many hells. You teach ostracism and fear.

Guess what? Your hells have no meaning for me. Do you "know" that hell exists? Do you have Objective Scientific Evidence?

De Maria, the inquisition did happen. Don't you read history? People, most of whom were women were tortured for days before being burned at the stake. They were called heretics. They served as very frightening examples that opposing the "Church" was quite deadly. Then, after they were dead, the Catholic Church took their land to increase it's own wealth and to prove that avarice is okay, in the name of "The One True God." Now, if they returned the land and possesions and apologized, many would have forgiven them. But they did not have any shame, it would seem. Or perhaps shame is what causes modern-day Catholics to minimize the autrocity.

I know that Holy wars have been fought, innocent people have been either killed or converted so that the Catholic faith would have continued support (and more land.) Both women, witches and heathens/pagans have been treated like dirt for a very many years in order to spread the love of Jesus Christ. Sigh.

You claim to be tolerant while so many call you judgemental. (Do these jeans make me look fat?) You are judgemental, and yes, in those jeans you look like crap.

Didn't black people used to be termed animals, intrinsically stupid and lynch material? Intolerance is an ugly thing; so is shame.

[Akoue]

because something has been read and believed for 7000 years (plus 2000?) it must be the truth.

Yeah, that would be ludicrous. So it's a good thing no Church, Catholic or otherwise, says it.

Didn't black people used to be termed animals, intrinsically stupid and lynch material? Intolerance is an ugly thing; so is shame.

Sadly, yes. But St. Augustine was black, and that hasn't hurt his standing in the Catholic Church.

[JoeT777]

-------- Withdrawn --------

[simoneaugie]

Akoue, De Maria said, quote:
I am a Catholic and I follow the interpretation of the Church. That interpretation has been the same for the past 2000 years. And for the Old Testament the same for the past 7000 years at least.

If the Catholic Church does not follow this interpretation, I misunderstood his post.

I didn't say Catholicism is anti-black. My point is that Catholicism is anti everything it does not approve of. The disapproval represents an us and them mentality. That is the mind-set of both control through fear and the fear of not being in control.

[Akoue]

My point is that Catholicism is anti everything it does not approve of.

I suppose there's some truth in that.

The disapproval represents an us and them mentality. That is the mind-set of both control through fear and the fear of not being in control.

Here we disagree. But I see where you're coming from.

[De Maria]

I could have sworn you were a woman With a name like Maria and all.;)

That's an old Catholic custom. Those of us who love Mary, take her name, men or women.

Examples of famous Catholic men who have taken Mary's name are:

St. Louis "Marie" Grignion de Montfort and St. Alphonsus "Maria" de Liquori.

[arcura]

Should the Catholic Church be against everything that it disagrees with?
Yup.
It does not make sense to agree with what you disagree with.
At least I personally do not agree with that which I disagree with, nor an I FOR that which I disagree with.
I admire The Church for being the same way.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura).

[Akoue]

Should the Catholic Church be against everything that it disagrees with?
Yup.
It does not make sense to agree with what you disagree with.
At least I personally do not agree with that which I disagree with, nor an I FOR that which I disagree with.
I admire The Church for being the same way.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura).

This is what I had in mind too. Like you, I typically find myself to be against the things I am against.

And it's good to know you made it back safely, Fred. I hope you had a wonderful Christmas.

[De Maria]

Akoue, De Maria said, quote:
I am a Catholic and I follow the interpretation of the Church. That interpretation has been the same for the past 2000 years. And for the Old Testament the same for the past 7000 years at least.

I said that because Cozyk insinuated that Christians interpret the bible anyway the wind blows. But we don't. At least, Catholics and Orthodox. We have Tradition which anchors our interpretation of the Bible to the Teaching of Jesus Christ.

If the Catholic Church does not follow this interpretation, I misunderstood his post.

Yes, you misunderstood. We don't follow it because its old. We follow it because Jesus Christ taught it.

I didn't say Catholicism is anti-black. My point is that Catholicism is anti everything it does not approve of. The disapproval represents an us and them mentality. That is the mind-set of both control through fear and the fear of not being in control.

The Catholic Church approves of that which Jesus said is good and disapproves of that which Jesus said is not good.

Very simple.

[De Maria]

....That is the mind-set of both control through fear and the fear of not being in control.

Not really. Yours is the mindset of one who doesn't like anything or anyone who doesn't agree with you. Therefore, since the Church teaches that certain things are evil which you believe are good, then you fear the Church because you can't control the Church.

It is really you who either hate or fear the Church because you can't control the Church.

[De Maria]

I pray Catholicism will never ensnare my mind and heart with it's rules, judgements, teachings and sureness...

May God grant you your prayer.

The only truths you Catholics have have shared here is that you are both condemning and controlling, oh, you teach to save us from one of your many hells. You teach ostracism and fear.

If that's how you want to take it, fine.

Guess what? Your hells have no meaning for me. Do you "know" that hell exists? Do you have Objective Scientific Evidence?

I know that God exists because the wonders of this world and I mean the simplest things, like the little bugs and the leaves on a tree are too wonderful to be here by accident.

And knowing that God exists, I believe that He loves us. Otherwise there is no reason for us to be here.

And knowing that He loves us, I believe we have free will. Because love is not coerced.

And knowing that we have free will, I believe hell exists. Because those who "freely choose" not to love God in return will be given what they desire. Eternity without feeling God's love. And that is hell.

De Maria, the inquisition did happen. Don't you read history?

Yeah. Don't you? If you do, then perhaps you should ask yourself why the Inquisition happened and read about it from both sides of the story. You will find that history repeats itself and that the Inquisition is happening again. Today it could be called the American Inquisition. Americans are trying to protect themselves from Muslim terrorists and have therefore put many of them in prison without legal representation as criminals of war. Some of them are alleged to be American citizens.

So, if America is wrong for protecting her citizens from Muslim terrorists. Then the Catholic countries were wrong for protecting their citizens from Muslim terrorists.

People, most of whom were women were tortured for days before being burned at the stake. They were called heretics.

Don't believe the anti-Catholic hype. You're confusing the witch hunts in America with the Inquisitions of Europe. They are different as night and day.

They served as very frightening examples that opposing the "Church" was quite deadly.

The Inquisitions served to protect Catholics from Muslims and their Jewish allies who were trying to elimintate the Church from the earth. And they almost succeeded. And if the Muslims had dispatched the Church, they would then have turned on the Jews as history has proven.

Then, after they were dead, the Catholic Church took their land to increase it's own wealth and to prove that avarice is okay, in the name of "The One True God." Now, if they returned the land and possesions and apologized, many would have forgiven them. But they did not have any shame, it would seem. Or perhaps shame is what causes modern-day Catholics to minimize the autrocity.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Here, read about the Inquisitions:
Truth About The Spanish Inquisition

Catholic Culture : Library : Truth about the Spanish Inquisition, The

The Inquisitions of History: The Mythology and the Reality | Reverend Brian Van Hove, S.J. | Ignatius Insight

The fact is that the Inquisitions were court cases with court records. And the Church still has those records which can be reviewed. Anti-Catholics have nothing but made up stories like the one you are repeating from thin air.

I know that Holy wars have been fought, innocent people have been either killed or converted so that the Catholic faith would have continued support (and more land.) Both women, witches and heathens/pagans have been treated like dirt for a very many years in order to spread the love of Jesus Christ. Sigh.

You are confusing the Catholic Church with other religions. The Catholic Church was spread by the blood of its Martyrs. And those Catholics who did spread Catholicism by the sword did it IN SPITE of the Catholic Church and not because of it.

You claim to be tolerant while so many call you judgemental. (Do these jeans make me look fat?) You are judgemental, and yes, in those jeans you look like crap.

And there you have proven that you are barely rational. In your hatred for anything or anyone Catholic, you don't care whether an argument is reasonable, you simply want to insult.

As for my appearance, I've been thin since my youth. I wasn't even a chubby baby.

Didn't black people used to be termed animals, intrinsically stupid and lynch material? Intolerance is an ugly thing; so is shame.

I suppose. But that wasn't because of Catholic Teaching. Many of our Popes were black and many of our Saints are black. Although Catholics are human, any Catholics who have ever been racist we so IN SPITE of Catholic teaching and not because of it.

[Maggie 3]

The supreme revelation of God is Jesus Christ Himself,
Jesus was God come to earth. He came in fulfillment of two thousand years of Jewish
History, and His coming was precisely as foretold by the prophets. He came
Among us and showed us what God is like, so we could know Him better.
As He told His disciple Philip, "He who has seen Me has seen the Father."

Maggie 3

[arcura]

De Maria,
Right you are.
Many years ago in some ways I felt as simoneaugie does .
Then I started studying The Church and real authentic history.
That turned this one Catholic basher around and I became a Catholic.
That was over thirty years ago and I am still learning more of the truth.
I think that simoneaugie will do as I did for quite while before I became so curious about how wrong The Church was that I started serious study of it.
I seriously doubt the simoneaugie will read the links you provided for fear that they will prove him wrong and never realizing that finding the truth is a great blessing.
It certainly was for me.
By the way I had a wonderful Christmas loving and feasting in three different homes with relatives and friends from the USA and Canada.
Getting home was a bit worry some for is snowed for several hundred miles on the way back.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arura)

[arcura]

Maggie 3,
Right you are.
As the bible teaches us, Jesus Christ is the visible image of the invisible God.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[De Maria]

De Maria,
Right you are.
Many years ago in some ways I felt as simoneaugie does .
Then I started studying The Church and real authentic history.
That turned this one Catholic basher around and I became a Catholic.
That was over thirty years ago and I am still learning more of the truth.
I think that simoneaugie will do as I did for quite while before I became so curious about how wrong The Church was that I started serious study of it.
I seriously doubt the simoneaugie will read the links you provided for fear that they will prove him wrong and never realizing that finding the truth is a great blessing.
It certainly was for me.
By the way I had a wonderful Christmas loving and feasting in three different homes with relatives and friends from the USA and Canada.
Getting home was a bit worry some for is snowed for several hundred miles on the way back.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arura)

I heard about that snow. But at least you had a white Christmas!

Oh, that reminds me. Last year, around Christmas, I took my kids to see Grandma. On the way, we encountered a blizzard. In WEST TEXAS.? My kids were ecstatic. Because, where we're from, they never see snow. I'm just thankful they never realized what a dangerous situation we were in.

We finally made it to a truck stop and they had a ball making snowmen and throwing snowballs.

When the snow let up, we made it to grandma's.

God was with us as I'm sure He was with you.

Peace and kindness to you also,

De Maria

[arcura]

De Maria,
Thanks.
I believe God is always with us as well as His guardian angels who 2 winters ago hekp us through a situation where most cars went into the ditch and a couple were upside down in the snow.
My brother, Bob, was driving and to this day I don't know how he managed to stay on the road without divine help.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[Wondergirl]

Are we the primary products of our genetic heritage and have no choice but to follow our instincts?

When did you make the cognitive choice to be heterosexual--at age 6, at age 12, at age 23?