[JoeT777]

Baptism alone doesn't make us Catholic, so in that sense baptism conducted in the proper form and with proper matter will be recognized by the Church.

A person, understanding the sacrament of baptism, of his own free will be judged accordingly; “…unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” John 3:5

Those with a desire for baptism and die unexpectedly or those martyred will be judged accordingly: “But he is a Jew that is one inwardly and the circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter: whose praise is not of men, but of God.” Rom 2: 29

JoeT

[Tj3]

Baptism alone doesn't make us Catholic, so in that sense baptism conducted in the proper form and with proper matter will be recognized by the Church.

Personally I am interested in the topic, "Baptism and Salvation" not baptism and the entrance requirements for any specific denomination.

A person, understanding the sacrament of baptism, of his own free will be judged accordingly; “…unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” John 3:5

Let's look at it in the context of scripture:

John 3:5-7
5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
NKJV

Note that he equates the water with the flesh, being born in the flesh, and being born again with being born in the spirit. This is not speaking about water baptism. Different topic.

[adam7gur]

1 Corinthians 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

What did children do to be named holy?Nothing!!!How are they holy? By the parents!!!If a parent is holy then the children are also until their time of accountability!No baptism required , the baptism of the parents works for them!

[Wondergirl]

Babies are not a nation. That argument, taken to its logical conclusion would have us baptizing everyone, whether they received Christ or not because they are part of a "nation".

Babies are included in "all nations" as are unbelievers who Jesus also commands His followers to baptize and teach/preach the Gospel to.

Where does it say in scripture that babies are saved through faith in Christ?

Jesus said "baptize all nations" and "suffer the little children to come unto Me." Since baptism (New Covenant) replaced circumcision (Old Covenant), baptism must be for children also. Origen wrote in the 3rd century that "the Church received from the apostles the tradition of giving baptism also to infants" (the apostles baptized entire households including children and slaves). Most of the mainstream churches believe in and practice infant baptism. These mainstream churches believe that the power of the Holy Spirit allows even infants to receive faith, that the Spirit begins the work of faith in them.

[Tj3]

1 Corinthians 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

What did children do to be named holy?Nothing!!!How are they holy? By the parents!!!If a parent is holy then the children are also until their time of accountability!No baptism required , the baptism of the parents works for them!

Where does it say that the baptism of the parents makes them holy?

1 Peter 1:17-20
18 knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.
NKJV

[Tj3]

Babies are included in "all nations" as are unbelievers who Jesus also commands His followers to baptize and teach/preach the Gospel to.

But in no case are we told to baptize those who have not received Christ as Saviour.

And in no case are we told baptism is effective for salvation.

We are not arguing that those who receive Christ as Saviour should not be baptized.

[JoeT777]

As I mentioned previously baptism is the remission of all sin, original and actual. With this remission is the removal of all temporal punishment. It was given the Church to for the purpose of glorification; “Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church and delivered himself up for it: That he might sanctify it, cleansing it by the laver of water in the word of life: That he might present it to himself, a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. Eph 5:25-27 Baptism also infuses sanctifying graces that become stronger with a synergistic cooperation through works, as it were becoming adopted sons of God (Cf. 1 Cor 3:16). An infant baptized and raised in a Christian home will benefit in learning these graces early in life.

JoeT

[Tj3]

As I mentioned previously baptism is the remission of all sin, original and actual. With this remission is the removal of all temporal punishment.

Where is this in scripture?

1 John 1:7
7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
NKJV

[JoeT777]

“ …unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” John 3:5

“This is not speaking about water baptism,” Tj3.

All the Fathers of the Church until the current age have understood John 3:5 to refer to baptism.

JoeT

[Tj3]

“ …unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” John 3:5

Let’s look at it in the context of scripture:

John 3:5-7
5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
NKJV

Note that he equates the water with the flesh, being born in the flesh, and being born again with being born in the spirit. This is not speaking about water baptism. Different topic.

All the Fathers of the Church until the current age have understood John 3:5 to refer to baptism.

Really? Your should get out more ;)

I know of many church leaders who disagree with your position. But in any case, this is not a matter for a vote. The one person who matters spoke in scripture and told us what he meant.

John 3:5-7
5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
NKJV

[Curlyben]

>Thread Closed<
As ever it's becoming circular.