[De Maria]

What is the relationship of Baptism and salvation?

[N0help4u]

The Bible says repent and be baptized
Baptism is a spiritual cleansing and a proclamation to express your commitment,
I believe baptism comes after you repent because you can't 'cleanse' what is still in its sin,

[JoeT777]

The Bible says repent and be baptized
Baptism is a spiritual cleansing and a proclamation to express your commitment,
I believe baptism comes after you repent because you can't 'cleanse' what is still in its sin,

Would you suggest that faith is required before baptism?

[Wondergirl]

God (in the form of His Holy Spirit) comes to us where we are and begins to work faith in us. Baptism is one of the means of grace, one of the avenues, used.

[N0help4u]

Does anybody that doesn't have faith feel a need to get baptized?
I would say it would be a requirement because I don't see any non believers running out to get baptized,

You can baptize an infant but they should get baptized as an adult as the Bible says Repent and be baptized

[Wondergirl]

I would say it would be a requirement because I don't see any non believers running out to get baptized

I do and have for many, many years.

[N0help4u]

I do and have for many, many years.

I see professing Christians being baptized but not people who claim they have NO belief in God.

[Wondergirl]

I see professing Christians being baptized but not people who claim they have NO belief in God.

Then please attend some Lutheran baptisms.

[JoeT777]

Infants are baptized; surly they aren't cognizant of an unmerited grace. Or do you feel that children can't be baptized?

JoeT

[N0help4u]

Yeah you do have a point there but they do infant baptism as a tradition of the church. I am saying a grown person not having any faith or repentance wanting to get baptized as an adult,
I grew up Lutheran and know that many Lutheran churches are more like social clubs,

[Wondergirl]

We've had threads like this before, and this one won't go anywhere either. There's the infant-baptism crowd and, opposing them, the adults-only crowd. Never the twain shall meet.

[N0help4u]

I see nothing wrong with infant baptism, In Acts they told a whole house to be baptized, There could have been kids in that household,
I just believe that once you are grown you should reaffirm your faith by baptism,
Your parents baptize you when you are an infant that is THEIR faith or their motives not yours, You should reaffirm it for your own faith when you are grown,

[Wondergirl]

I see nothing wrong with infant baptism, In Acts they told a whole house to be baptized, There could have been kids in that household,
I just believe that once you are grown you should reaffirm your faith by baptism,
Your parents baptize you when you are an infant, You should reaffirm it for your own faith when you are grown,

That's the reason churches have Confirmation, to reaffirm Baptism.

In the Lutheran churches I've belonged to (none of which were "social clubs"), if an adult has never been baptized, he/she studies for x number of weeks (depends on Bible and church doctrine knowledge), then is baptized and confirmed. Confirmation is a lead-in to the taking of Holy Communion.

[JoeT777]

God (in the form of His Holy Spirit) comes to us where we are and begins to work faith in us. Baptism is one of the means of grace, one of the avenues, used.

Then is baptism necessary?

[Wondergirl]

Then is baptism necessary?

Necessary for what -- For salvation? For church membership? To rate a big party and gifts?

[JoeT777]

That's the reason churches have Confirmation, to reaffirm Baptism.

In the Lutheran churches I've belonged to (none of which were "social clubs"), if an adult has never been baptized, he/she studies for x number of weeks (depends on Bible and church doctrine knowledge), then is baptized and confirmed. Confirmation is a lead-in to the taking of Holy Communion.

Those not in full communion with the Catholic Church can be reconciled, even those who once denied the Church. Those would not be possible if faith were required. Catholics hold that baptism is the remission of all sin, original and actual, as well as, the temporal punishment of sin. The second effect of baptism is to infuse a sanctifying grace “perfecting the essence of the soul… it is a certain participated likeness of the Divine Nature.”

The effects of baptism remains for life renewed when the soul cooperates with the graces conferred. These graces remain whether Confirmation is made. However, Confirmation, confers a chrism of salvation. Confirmation perfects the Christian.

JoeT

[JoeT777]

Necessary for what -- For salvation? For church membership? To rate a big party and gifts?

Well, I’ve heard from some of you that the grace of faith was necessary before baptism, and we know that without baptism we cannot enter the Kingdom of God. So, my question to you was, “is baptism necessary”; i.e. for salvation?

JoeT

[N0help4u]

Those not in full communion with the Catholic Church can be reconciled, even those who once denied the Church. Those would not be possible if faith were required.
JoeT

So are you are you saying that faith is not required?

[Wondergirl]

Well, I’ve heard from some of you that the grace of faith was necessary before baptism, and we know that without baptism we cannot enter the Kingdom of God. So, my question to you was, “is baptism necessary”; i.e. for salvation?

JoeT

I say no. If someone is unbaptized and is dying and honestly asks God for forgiveness, I do not believe God will condemn him.

God looks into a person's heart. He doesn't check first to make sure someone has been baptized.

[N0help4u]

That's the reason churches have Confirmation, to reaffirm Baptism.

In the Lutheran churches I've belonged to (none of which were "social clubs"), if an adult has never been baptized, he/she studies for x number of weeks (depends on Bible and church doctrine knowledge), then is baptized and confirmed. Confirmation is a lead-in to the taking of Holy Communion.

Confirmation is religion and I really don't see it in the Bible, I left the Lutheran church because I just don't see how the church formulas get you 'saved' I did the confirmation and baptism when I was in High school exactly the way you just said,